Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-01-2013, 08:28   #1
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Skip ASA 104? Is It Needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative Or European Systems?

I don't what to sound pompous with the following, it is not that i am not willing to step down for a few days it is more that time and money is a limited resource better spent on a boat and/or tougher coursework.

Looking at the material in the syllabus and books associated within asa 101,103 and 104 it is material I experienced many years ago. I have been sailing since i was a week old. I am 35. I have extensive inland and great lake sailing, a lot of coastal and some blue water under my belt. Some in high lat. 108 would be a great course but it has the prerequisites of ASA 101, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107 (i do need a refresh on 107). The time and money for these could be better spent on tougher classes and buying a boat.

?) When i enquirer about challenging ('testing out') courses it is not much cheaper. I assume because a large practical assessment is included. Yes/no? Does anyone know of a cheap challenge program/school?

?) Are these really prerequisites or is this up to the school and there is room for exceptions? If so would a bare boat charter company accept only 106/108 instead? (I realize the curriculum is not entirely spiraled and limited content is not built on in later courses)

?) I had planned to get my 6-pack coast guard commercial license after I finish my PhD in the next year or 2. Although i have well over the required 360 days in command little of it is within the last 3 years (so the catch 22 is how do i rebuild my 90days in the last 3y if i have no way to rent a boat). Most all of it is on a sailboat. Lets say I do the coast guard license and all my hours are on a sailboat. Does this look just as good to charter companies? I would assume 'better' but i am not familiar with the sailing endorsement system.

?) Are any of the European/Kiwi/Aussi systems taught in the Americas? (preferable centeral america or canada) Where? Which ones are a good program and why? Do these also make you start at the beginning? (i.e. lets say i magically flew to the UK and did the yachtmaster would one need to start at daysailor?)

Originally my wife and I planned to bare boat a good sample of keel shapes and sail types to get a feel for what we wanted to eventually buy. But after taking some welding classes and i am now thinking about building a metal boat (famous last words). I have never seen metal boats available for bare boat charter so I now questions how important asa 101, 103, 104 are if i end up never needing access to bare boat charter.
I would rather invest in a upper level course that will expose me to new topics and other peoples ideas of how to handle difficult situations but it seems no one can jump in at their skill level. Is there a way to do that and still retain the chartering license afforded from 101-104?

Thanks in advance for your ideas,
__________________

__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 08:41   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

I haven't chartered in a long while. I have no certifications from recognized schools. Do most charterers still accept a sailing resume with the provision that they might have a captain come out with you the first day to make sure you know your stuff? Then if they determine that you don't have the appropriate skills you're on the hook for the captain's fee for the rest of the trip?

The times I chartered someone would come to "work" on a nearby boat to watch me as I left the dock. Apparently they could tell enough about you by watching you handle the boat in the marina.
__________________

__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 09:06   #3
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
...most charterers still accept a sailing resume with the provision that they might have a captain come out with you the first day...someone would come to "work" on a nearby boat to watch me as I left the dock. Apparently they could tell enough about you by watching you handle the boat in the marina.
Where (region) were these charters?
I hear the Caribbean will rent a boat to anyone and that is nice as there are many models in the pool.
Thanks for the info.
__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 09:10   #4
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Also, does anyone know of a Spanish language equivalent (101-104) that is equally recognized? Or 101-104 in Spanish? You would think that would be common in Central and South America.
Spanish imersion while sailing would be nice, surely someone filled this niche.
__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 10:04   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmus View Post
Where (region) were these charters?
I hear the Caribbean will rent a boat to anyone and that is nice as there are many models in the pool.
Thanks for the info.
3 different areas in the Caribbean and once in Greece.

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 10:38   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Key West FL - Burlington VT
Boat: O'day 32 CC Ketch
Posts: 493
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, but whats this ASA stuff your speaking of?
__________________
RabidRabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 10:42   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Why do you need ANY of those...?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 10:54   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

The RYA certifications are generally taken a lot more seriously than the ASA certifications and, yes, there are opportunities to earn RYA certifications in the States. If your days/mileage are within the last 10 years and you have a logbook, then you should be fine. You can do the theory courses online.

Here are two RYA training centres in Florida and one in Rhode Island:
International Crew Training
MPT | Maritime Professional Training
Captain Courses, STCW, Yachtmaster, Confident Captain, Rhode Island

Apart from being an RYA member, I have no affiliation with any of them.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 11:18   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Why do you need ANY of those...?
Some places are getting picky. Another thread on CF discussed that there is now a law in Croatia that you must have an official license from your state.

I find it amusing since the US has none that they list the private corporation ASA as one of the acceptable licenses.

http://www.croatia-yachting-charter....ng-croatia.pdf

The "rating" I got from my club to use my club's boats is of course useless for Croatia. ASA didn't exist when I got my rating, but some people from my club said they recently easily tested out of the first 4 courses of ASA with what they had to know for our rating. The problem is testing out of ASA courses is still expensive.


From:
Bareboat Charter Croatia

To rent a yacht on a Bareboat charter, Croatian Law states that there must be a licenced skipper on board and that there should also be someone with a VHF licence on board, usually the skipper. Possession of some form of skippers licence or paperwork is now insisted on by all companies to conform to the above regulations. No company wants to risk chartering a yacht where there may be an issue regarding insurance in the event of an incident.
Unfortunately this does now mean that even if you are an existing experienced skipper (often having sailed all your life) but do not have any paperwork as it is not legally required in your country, you will now have to get some kind of licence to charter a yacht in Croatia. However all that is required for this is the most basic level of approved licence and for most European countries this is the International Certificate of Competence which can easily be obtained by any competent skipper usually in a one day assessment. All national sailing authorities are able to carry out the assessments in their own countries, and as an International Yacht Training approved school, we can also asses both British and Irish nationals or citizens of those countries in our school on Murter for anybody interested in this option.
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 13:08   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,910
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

I can answer the ASA and charter related questions for you (ASA Instructor Evaluator, former ASA school owner, have worked in charter industry off and on since 1994).


Re “ASA Challenge”. The rate is up to the school. A challenge involves an on the water evaluation (if applicable to the class) and successful completion of the written exam for that class. Since a challenge is typically just done for one student, the school does have quite a few costs (boat, instructor, ASA certification fees) that are not spread across multiple students (as instructor and boat costs would would be in a group class). To help offset this a bit, what I used to do, was to charge a flat $250 fee for challenges provided they were booked in conjunction with other training. The $250 covered most of our cost for the challenge and hopefully we made it up on the other training. How other schools handle it is entirely up them.


Prerequisites are defined as part of the ASA standards and are NOT at the discretion of the school. All certification requests are processed by ASA and in order for a school to submit a certification request the student must have competed the prerequisites.


Re chartering. The decision as to whether to charter to you is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the charter company. The ASA certifications are not licenses – they are simply proof of training. A typical charter application will include a request for a resume of the skipper. If the charter company is comfortable that you have appropriate experience they can decided to charter to you. Barring any local/regional laws to the contrary, you do not have to have any form of training certification or commercial licensing to charter a typical mid-sized sailing vessel. Having the ASA certifications also does not create any obligation on their part to charter to you. The charter contract will almost certainly have a provision in it which provides for them to do an on the water check out with you...and to put a local captain aboard, at your expense, for the duration of the charter if they are not comfortable with your skills. However, in many venues the charter companies are quite lax about the skills of their charterers. A USCG licenses with a sail endorsement would “look good” to a charter company, as would ASA certifications, but again, the ultimate decision is entirely theirs.


Re standards other than ASA. There also RYA schools in some venues.


Also, you can of course arrange for private/customized training with or without the ASA certifications.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 13:45   #11
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Also, you can of course arrange for private/customized training with or without the ASA certifications.
That would defeat the purpose. The goal is to have a recognizable cert to avoid hiring a capt. I can envision no trips where i would ever want to return to port some day after leaving only to drop off the captain who is getting paid (as you and cal40john said). I realized that is the norm and would like to avoid it.

Thanks for clarifying that ASA mandates the prerequisites.
What about RYA system? Where are RYA schools in Canada and south/central America?

belizesailor, Since you are ASA instructor and your name implies you live in Belise, is ASA used throughout the Americas? Do other American (non-USA) nations have an alternative program perhaps in Spanish?

Thanks
__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 13:54   #12
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: Skip ASA 104? Is It Needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European Systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Some places are getting picky....
I agree with all that (although not about Croatia per se) more about BC, NZ and Alaska.
I also have heard some insurance is cheaper with some certs although every insurance i have seen in the US (even for world travel) is oblivious to this.
__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 13:55   #13
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: skip ASA 104? is it needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The RYA certifications ....
good links thanks
__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 14:21   #14
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Skip ASA 104? Is It Needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative Or European Systems?

certifications dont necessarily mean ability to do that which has been certified..i know both cpts in usa and from ryXX who cannot DO anything....except boast and brag and lose boats....
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2013, 14:22   #15
Registered User
 
cadmus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Re: Skip ASA 104? Is It Needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative or European Systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Why do you need ANY of those...?
I don't know? You ask the question in my head. I feel it is missing from my resume if i want to charter a boat. I can no longer mooch my brother's boat as he is circumnavigating and I may need to charter to get my FIX. My wife's friend is wanting my wife to take the ASA classes and it would be good for her to take them and get someone else's perspective. It also kinda miffs me that she would get some little certs and i don't. I think the USCG course is more valuable but i am short on the days withing 3 years bringing me to the catch 22 of needing to charter.
If we lived near water I would just buy and/or build and/or fix-n-flip boats of my own. And then your question would be obvious: NO. But i am locked into a PhD program in Colorado and I now see that our professions might keep us from the ocean for a few years.
__________________

__________________
cadmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
asa

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.