Skip ASA 104? Is It Needed? USCG 6pack? Alternative Or European Systems?

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by zeehag

certifications dont necessarily mean ability to do that which has been certified..i know both cpts in usa and from ryXX who cannot DO anything....except boast and brag and lose boats....

I 100% agree, as it applies to sailing and many other topics.
...but that is the system we are living with, sadly. It could be improved.

[PapaBruce]

I have no certifications, lots of experience and my resume has been accepted at two charter companies in the BVI. A friend has ASA103, 104 and the same companies wanted him to have a skipper on board the first day for a couple hours. No rhyme nor reason!

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by cadmus

I agree with all that (although not about Croatia per se) more about BC, NZ and Alaska.
I also have heard some insurance is cheaper with some certs although every insurance i have seen in the US (even for world travel) is oblivious to this.

Insurance is crazy. When I got my Cal 40 one insurance company asked for my sailing resume. Another didn't, just said since I had never owned anything bigger than a Hobie before I would have to be insured by their higher priced affiliate for a year. That one was still cheaper than the one that claimed they were impressed with my resume.

The one I went with (that didn't ask about my resume) gave me a 10% discount for taking the 50 question online test that many of the states are now requiring. I had to study a little to get all the jetski questions right.

[Kettlewell]

I wonder if the boating safety certificate now required in many states would satisfy the insurance company? Here in NY you have to take a day-long course and pass a written test to get one, but a lot of states let you take an online test and then you get the certificate. It mainly has to do with safety rules and regulations and such.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by cadmus

....

Thanks for clarifying that ASA mandates the prerequisites.
What about RYA system? Where are RYA schools in Canada and south/central America?

belizesailor, Since you are ASA instructor and your name implies you live in Belise, is ASA used throughout the Americas? Do other American (non-USA) nations have an alternative program perhaps in Spanish?

Thanks

RYA is similar to ASA, but I don' t know their system in detail, there should be others here who can answer in more detail.

ASA is recognized internationally and has schools in many international locations. I used to live in Belize and ran an ASA school there. A friend of mine now runs an ASA affiliated school in Belize (www.belizesailingvacations.biz). There are many international (non-USA based) ASA schools, but only a few in the Americas (USA excluded -- loads there), one in Belize and two in Mexico. See Outside the United States - Sailing Clubs | American Sailing Association.

Re Spanish. There is not a Spanish version of the ASA materials, but a Spanish speaking instructor could of course deliver the training in Spanish. I've had a few Spanish speaking students and even started on a draft of an illustrated list of ASA sail training related terms in Spanish and English. One issue you run into with Spanish and sailing terminology is that, while the English vocabulary is reasonably standard, the Spanish vocabulary can vary quite a bit depending upon which dialect of Spanish you are using (much more so than English). But, no, there are no Spanish language sail training that I know. There is a very good phrase book called "Spanish for Cruisers" that you should be able to find on Amazon etc.

Re captain aboard. It would be a bit unusual to return the captain to shore each night. Normally a charter captain is aboard for the duration. Also, a good way to learn is what I used to call "instructional charters" -- these are charters integrated with sailing instruction. It's not the least cost approach, but it is a nice relaxed way to learn and to teach because you can spread a few classes out across a one week period (typical charter duration).

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by RabidRabbit

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, but whats this ASA stuff your speaking of?

ASA = American Sailing Association
RYA = Royal Yachting Association

Other than a dinghy that I sailed in a lake when I was 10, I has Zero sailing experience and thought this sailing thing might be worth a try 4 years ago. I was curious and did ASA 101 & 103 in Florida and was thumbs up for the next step. I then did ASA 104 a couple months later in Biloxi, MS. Both instructors provided valuable knowledge and advice.

The 104 Bareboat Chartering was my ticket for admission and I was able to charter a 35' Catalina from a company in Vancouver, BC. From then on my wife and I have chartered a couple of times a year with friends joining us and have worked up to 40+ foot catamarans.

Without the ASA courses I don't see a way that I would have been able to get started as the charter companies all want to see a resume with some credentials. So in my opinion these courses are very worthwhile for the knowledge you gain and the opportunity they create.

Best of Luck cadmus & welcome to CF.

[RabidRabbit]

Its been said ASA is costly, what roughly does it cost to take in america? are all the different levels same cost? For someone who's been on the water a while, paying a corparation to test out on stuff you allready know, might not seem fun?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by RabidRabbit

Its been said ASA is costly, what roughly does it cost to take in america? are all the different levels same cost? For someone who's been on the water a while, paying a corparation to test out on stuff you allready know, might not seem fun?

Each school sets their own prices. Each class is typically a different price (and different underlying costs to the school). For example, the school's costs to conduct a Basic Keelboat (ASA 101) class are substantially lower than an Advanced Coastal Cruising (ASA 106) class.

Example rates for ASA schools in the USA are approximately $350-$850, depending up which class, per student per class. Schools often offer various promotions and discounts (such as combination class discounts).

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by krafthaus

So in my opinion these courses are very worthwhile for the knowledge you gain and the opportunity they create.

I am not saying they are not worth while. they fill a niche. But i have many years experience and I really don't want to have to take intro classes when i would prefer something more challenging. When you think about it that is not a big request. One should be able to start at their skill and/or interest level and take 108 without 101. I teach an advanced experimental design and stats course at a university. This course has prerequisites. But, if someone with the statistics knowledge obtained in the prerequisite course wanted to take my course I would let them. I love ASA, in this world of automation where the vast majority of boaters in the USA want to burn fossilfuels and steer (motor boats) rather than think and use mother nature I feel ASA is an invaluable educational resource and advocate for our sport. But i know the syllabi and I know the recommended text books (for 101, 103, 104) i would rather learn new material. I am very much an 'enjoy and make the best of everything' kind of guy. I would find pleasure and benefit in review of old material and there is always opportunities to swap ideas and stories etc. However with tuition that high and that long of a time commitment I would rather find a more advanced program. Certainly there is a certification system that is recognized by most charter brokers but starts at a more advanced level?
Anyone?

QUOTE=krafthaus;1131794]
Best of Luck cadmus & welcome to CF
[/QUOTE]
Thanks I have actually been here and been on sailnet, boat design, etc etc for years... kinda surprised i never posted before.

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

...There is a very good phrase book called "Spanish for Cruisers" that you should be able to find on Amazon etc.

yes i have it. and the french one. well written and well organized.

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by RabidRabbit

... For someone who's been on the water a while, paying a corparation to test out on stuff you allready know, might not seem fun?

I agree 100%.

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Re captain aboard. It would be a bit unusual to return the captain to shore each night. Normally a charter captain is aboard for the duration..

My comment was referring to the fact that when you don't have the minimum cert required by most charter agencies they require that you hire a capt to come along. Then after a day or two he/she might say "yeah you don't need me anymore" and then one needs to return the hired captan to a nearby port. Both you and cal40john referred to this. When i have disused this issue with charter companies in years past they often say the hired capt would need to be returned to home port or one near by once he/she gives approval. That means one can not travel too far. That is not my style, i like to cover ground and avoid crowds. Also that capt is paid more than i can afford to pay him, so it never worked out.

[zeehag]

there is a huge difference between certified and experienced, unfortunately......

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by zeehag

there is a huge difference between certified and experienced, unfortunately......

Neither, nor even both certification and experience together, are a guarantee of competency. Francesco Schettino is a good example. Insurance companies, charter companies, etc. need an indicator, as unreliable as indicators may be, of competency and certifications are the best imperfect indicators available.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by cadmus

My comment was referring to the fact that when you don't have the minimum cert required by most charter agencies they require that you hire a capt to come along. Then after a day or two he/she might say "yeah you don't need me anymore" and then one needs to return the hired captan to a nearby port. Both you and cal40john referred to this. When i have disused this issue with charter companies in years past they often say the hired capt would need to be returned to home port or one near by once he/she gives approval. That means one can not travel too far. That is not my style, i like to cover ground and avoid crowds. Also that capt is paid more than i can afford to pay him, so it never worked out.

Yes, misunderstood your original comment.

Also, small boat captains don't make much...not likely to be much more than about $150-200 per day unless the charter company is taking on a margin.