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Old 11-06-2015, 05:43   #16
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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I got my first ticket 18 years ago. Studied by myself, (8 months I was rehabbing from m/c wreck) I went in for OUPV test which is the same test as 100 ton master. It was USCG Sector Charleston. The examiner said since you drove up from Fl we'll make it a 25 ton Master.

I would guess from this that the examiner reviewed your sea service time, realized that you had enough time to qualify for the higher license, and chose (offered) to give you the test for Master instead of the OUPV test. The tests are similar, but not identical; a few more questions on the test for Master.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:18   #17
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

With an OUPV you can run fishing charters for six or less. Most small inshore charter boats operate with an OUPV or 25 ton license.
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Old 12-06-2015, 04:12   #18
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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You have to get a "TWIC" card in U.S. now thats another 130.00
Just as an FYI... The TWIC card is a complex issue if you are off cruising as it must be renewed in person. I did a great deal of research and wrote everything up here.

Basically, you must get a TWIC as a security check before they issue a Merchant Mariner Credential. I managed to renew my MMC from overseas without renewing my TWIC.
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Old 22-06-2015, 04:42   #19
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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No offense, but...

I hear this all the time. I think it's just another one of those urban legends. I have never seen any credible evidence that it is true. All I have ever heard are stories about how someone heard that a guy had said one time, that this guy's brother told him how it was true.

I wonder if anyone can actually point to a case where a boater with a 6-pack license was out on his own time--not actually working a job--had some sort of an incident, and suffered some punishment that he would not have suffered if he had not had the license. I certainly have never seen any evidence that such a case exists.

(And, cabo_sailor, I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you. I certainly do not mean to. I just hear this all the time and I really have my doubts.)
Licensed mariners are held to a higher standard. Check out the quote from Lt. Hobson in the last paragraph.

Tug-barge hits boat anchored in channel - Professional Mariner - October/November 2007
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Old 22-06-2015, 05:11   #20
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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Licensed mariners are held to a higher standard. Check out the quote from Lt. Hobson in the last paragraph.

Tug-barge hits boat anchored in channel - Professional Mariner - October/November 2007

The circumstance described there is that the licensed captain was actually working -- using his license -- at the time.

Denver's query was about whether there are bonafide occurrences where licensee's were held to a higher standard when they were on their own time, i.e., NOT working.

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Old 22-06-2015, 05:40   #21
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

Masters yes, 6 Pack very little. I encourage anyone going for their six pack to continue on to their Masters. Most schools offer combined courses for the two that save you money as well, vs taking them separate. There are places in travels around the world, the Masters may be advantageous to have.
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Old 22-06-2015, 08:12   #22
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

Thank you all for your replies. We decided to go ahead and get the licenses. Figured that we'll never regret doing it and quite possibly would regret it if we don't.
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Old 22-06-2015, 08:23   #23
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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The circumstance described there is that the licensed captain was actually working -- using his license -- at the time.

Denver's query was about whether there are bonafide occurrences where licensee's were held to a higher standard when they were on their own time, i.e., NOT working.
Exactly. The example presented is not what I asked for.

Clearly when you are operating in a professional capacity--under the authority of your license--you will be held to a professional standard. As you should be. As anyone would expect.

I do not believe, however, that when you are NOT operating professionally--along for a ride on a friend's boat, or just out boating recreationally, for example--that having a license means you will be held to a higher standard than any other recreational boater.
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Old 22-06-2015, 17:50   #24
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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Exactly. The example presented is not what I asked for.

Clearly when you are operating in a professional capacity--under the authority of your license--you will be held to a professional standard. As you should be. As anyone would expect.

I do not believe, however, that when you are NOT operating professionally--along for a ride on a friend's boat, or just out boating recreationally, for example--that having a license means you will be held to a higher standard than any other recreational boater.
Having been close to the source (23 years in the USCG) and 6 years teaching licensing and dealing with the licensing arm of the USCG...they have made the threat many times unoficially.

I too wonder if there are any bonifide cases where it has happened.

I have not heard of any...but I wouldnt put it past them.

Same concept that CDL drivers can lose their license for trucker standards even though driving their private auto on their own time. That I have heard from numerous sources including family state troopers.
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Old 22-06-2015, 18:02   #25
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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Having been close to the source (23 years in the USCG) and 6 years teaching licensing and dealing with the licensing arm of the USCG...they have made the threat many times unoficially.

I too wonder if there are any bonifide cases where it has happened.

I have not heard of any...but I wouldnt put it past them.

Same concept that CDL drivers can lose their license for trucker standards even though driving their private auto on their own time. That I have heard from numerous sources including family state troopers.
I find the expectations and laws are the same regardless of license. In court you're subject to the same laws. However, license truck drivers or captains are subject to additional consequences because their license could be impacted.

So, I've found nothing to say the standards are higher, just the professional consequences are worse.

That's true in many professions. If you're in the public eye, then your employer may hold you to a higher standard than the law does. If you're a football player for the Denver Broncos and marijuana is found in your system in a random test, you'll be suspended, while many citizens in the state are not subject to such rules. Employers and regulatory agencies set rules that differ from general laws.
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Old 23-06-2015, 07:00   #26
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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I too wonder if there are any bonifide cases where it has happened. I have not heard of any...but I wouldnt put it past them.
I wouldn't put it past them either, but as far as I can tell, it has never happened.

The thing is that so many people state it as an incontrovertible fact. I have seen people say--seemingly with absolute certainty--that if you are riding along with a friend in his boat, and some incident occurs, you will be held accountable, because you are a licensed captain and should have taken charge. I call "BS" on that. I don't believe it. I think it is just an urban legend within the boating community.

Of course, I'm willing to eat my words if I am wrong. I will bow obsequiously and apologize to anyone who can present me with verifiable evidence that something like this has ever happened. Telling me that some friend once heard from his brother-in-law that it happened, though, is not enough. Yet something like that always seems to be the best evidence that the people who make these claims ever have.

In the meantime, while I'm ready and willing to be proven wrong, I remain convinced that it is just an urban legend.
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Old 23-06-2015, 07:37   #27
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

I hold a 200 Ton Master document and teach an OUPV / 100 Ton Master course and proctor exams for Mariners Learning System, so I am a little missed toward licensing. I recommend going on to do the Master course or taking a complete Master course to start with. With the OUPV all you can do is charters of 6 or fewer passengers like fishing charters and the like. Great if that's all you want to do, but very limited. You cannot get a towing endorsement on an OUPV so you couldn't work for Seatow or the like with just a six pack. I know several skippers who are primary fishing charter operators, but run bigger boats as well because they have a Master ticket. As for increased liability as a licensed mariner, that is just not true. You have to be "operating under the authority of your license" for that license to be considered. Operating a vessel for which no license of required, like your own private pleasure boat is not operating under authority, and your license will have no bearing. And it can work in your favor, as was previously mentioned they are more likely to believe you as a professional mariner, than some idiot on a jet ski (provided you didn't do something really stupid.)
The example of a truck driver losing his CDL for something that happened in his private vehicle does not apply here. That provision is specifically written into the vehicle licensing code and cannot be applied to mariners.
And being held responsible as a passenger is just ridiculous. You would have no more authority or liability than you would as a licensed driver riding a city bus. The owner or operator of the boat is in charge no matter what, and you would be more likely to get in trouble of you did try to usurp his authority in that situation.
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Old 23-06-2015, 09:34   #28
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

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I hold a 200 Ton Master document and teach an OUPV / 100 Ton Master course and proctor exams for Mariners Learning System, so I am a little missed toward licensing. I recommend going on to do the Master course or taking a complete Master course to start with. With the OUPV all you can do is charters of 6 or fewer passengers like fishing charters and the like. Great if that's all you want to do, but very limited. You cannot get a towing endorsement on an OUPV so you couldn't work for Seatow or the like with just a six pack. I know several skippers who are primary fishing charter operators, but run bigger boats as well because they have a Master ticket. As for increased liability as a licensed mariner, that is just not true. You have to be "operating under the authority of your license" for that license to be considered. Operating a vessel for which no license of required, like your own private pleasure boat is not operating under authority, and your license will have no bearing. And it can work in your favor, as was previously mentioned they are more likely to believe you as a professional mariner, than some idiot on a jet ski (provided you didn't do something really stupid.)
The example of a truck driver losing his CDL for something that happened in his private vehicle does not apply here. That provision is specifically written into the vehicle licensing code and cannot be applied to mariners.
And being held responsible as a passenger is just ridiculous. You would have no more authority or liability than you would as a licensed driver riding a city bus. The owner or operator of the boat is in charge no matter what, and you would be more likely to get in trouble of you did try to usurp his authority in that situation.
Well my resume is certainly similar to yours and I have to disagree...

The USCG has repeatedly said that if you are on board a vessel where the skipper may or may not have a license but you do....they just might hold you to a higher standard...whether they ever will...we have to wait I guess. It is a stretch of the law as normally they don't have the jurisdiction to take action...but licenses are "privileges" and a judge/investigative officer just might agree with the USCG if your actions were egregious enough. Even if they don't do anything right away...a note in your file may affect your renewal...again a stretch...who's willing to bet their ticket?


Again...nothing substantiated but they have repeatedly made that threat public in publications and to at least the school owners I worked for that passed it along strenuously. They just might be waiting for a test case.

As far as an OUPV getting a towing endorsement...are you sure? I believe a OUPV can hold a towing endorsement.

Course Details - COMMERCIAL ASSISTANCE TOWING ENDORSEMENT

Any USCG OUPV (6-Pack) or Master licensed captain up to 200 tons, who wishes to assist disabled vessels for a fee must have a Commercial Assistance Towing Endorsement added to his or her license.
This USCG approved course will cover all required information in regard to assistance towing vessels. At the completion of the course, Sea School will issue a certificate of completion which you will submit to the Coast Guard, The Coast Guard will then add the endorsement to your license.
No additional experience is required for this endorsement.


Commercial Assistance Towing Endorsement | captainschool.com
Commercial Assistance Towing

The Commercial Assistance Towing Endorsement is a four hour USCG Approved course for a mariner holding any license. This license is strictly for assisting disabled vessels. There are no additional sea time or service requirements for a commercial assistance towing endorsement.



USCG Towing Endorsement - Thomas Marine Associates

Commercial Assistance Towing Endorsementaining





This 4-hour course enables the mariner to tow reacreational vessels commercially. You may not accept any remuneration of any kind for towing a vessel unless you have an assistance towing endorsement on your license. This is an endorsement for OUPV or Master level licenses.
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Old 28-06-2015, 05:34   #29
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

It seems to be a sticky wicket, while I don't agree with it, I can see their logic behind the "you should have known better" argument.

In general though the more training one has the better off they are when it gets ugly.
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Old 28-06-2015, 12:55   #30
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Re: Practical Benefit to USCG OUPV License?

I've heard that argument as well, and "if you hold a higher license than the skipper operating the vessel, even if you are a passenger, you can be held accountable if you don't act or say something that might have prevented an accident." Of course proving that you were aware of the circumstances might be a tough one to prove, also, I have never actually heard of an instance that has been the case. Been licensed since 1982, have made my living from it, am not going to renew again, too many hoops to jump through anymore. Not sure if I will ever take a free lance delivery, been thinking about it, but for now am way to busy with my own boat.
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