Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2016, 12:40   #1
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Good idea or bad idea?
__________________

__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 12:51   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Good. There are plenty of licensed car drivers that are idiots.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 13:00   #3
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

In total and on balance, I am in favor of marine craft operator licensing. You have a standardized set of knowledge that covers colregs, navigation, rules of the road, etc., so other mariners have at least an expectation how another vessels' operator will behave under similar circumstances.
The downside is that licensed skippers are considered to be knowledgeable and experienced so if there is a collision or accident at sea, they will be held to a higher standard than your usual dufus driving his/her boat.
Be safe out there... Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:09   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 62
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Bad.

Here in Portugal you have a rigorous formation system that will limit you legally if you don't follow it. A basic skipper license doesn't allow you to sail or motor boats over 7.5m and not more than 1.5 miles out. As you progress and take further accredited courses, your limits are progressively reduced. Among the different scales of certifications, you have celestial navigation, radio operator licenses and night crusing.

If you're close minded enough and want to skip all the hassles, you pay 300€ and register your boat in the Netherlands and don't need anything to sail or motor any type of vessel.

Now when you're boating between several vessels, guess from which ones I run away as fast as possible?

Yep, the ones with a Netherland's or Belgium flags.


Not saying all skippers of those boats are incompetent but I rather not find out.

School was never a bad thing especially when your life might depend on it.

My two Portuguese cents.

Oh, and I only have a basic skipper license.

Enviado do meu GT-I9195 através de Tapatalk
__________________
tchavei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:14   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

There isn't a license or certification needed to have kids either....
So can we at least have some part of our lives free from Government intrusion?
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:14   #6
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Good

A basic certification of Rules of the Road, Navigation and Radio procedures should be required before heading out.

I say this becasue there are a large number of boaters who have no idea how to use there radio or know the difference between a green or red marker.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:23   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santander, Spain
Boat: Actively searching for one...
Posts: 66
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

In Spain there are 4 different licenses. In fact I'll be applying for the one that allows to command boats of up to 15m (45') within 12 miles from shore. But is kind of absurd. You'll forget all the theory in one month withoit practice. Ironically, an English skipper can pilot in Spanish waters without a license, but a Spaniards can not...
__________________
Bertie68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:41   #8
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,719
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Not good.

There is no evidence that licensing will help people be more responsible about their obligations. There is licensing where we are, and it does not stop skippers from driving like idiots. Cheechako mentioned how (in)effective it is for automobiles. Licensing is usually a way for States to gain revenue. We are already taxed enough. There are so many bureaucratic hoops to jump through in life, do we really want another?

It's funny, in a way, 'cause i felt really proud, as a 16 yr. old, to get my first drivers' license, it was like a coming of age ceremony.

However, I really do think we'll see licensing for vessels over a certain length at some time, it will be another futile effort to legislate safety, probably ineffective at its goal, because the irresponsible ones will forget everything they learned to take the tests, and you'll wind up with what we have now: those who want to educate themselves, do, and the others don't know (or forgot) what to do.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:54   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 62
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
There isn't a license or certification needed to have kids either....
So can we at least have some part of our lives free from Government intrusion?
I think there should be one required for some people
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
Good

A basic certification of Rules of the Road, Navigation and Radio procedures should be required before heading out.

I say this becasue there are a large number of boaters who have no idea how to use there radio or know the difference between a green or red marker.
The OP asked if NO licensing was a Good or Bad idea. You're saying it's a good idea but then defend the opposite?

Enviado do meu GT-I9195 através de Tapatalk
__________________
tchavei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 14:59   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 62
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertie68 View Post
In Spain there are 4 different licenses. In fact I'll be applying for the one that allows to command boats of up to 15m (45') within 12 miles from shore. But is kind of absurd. You'll forget all the theory in one month withoit practice. Ironically, an English skipper can pilot in Spanish waters without a license, but a Spaniards can not...
Same here however some things remain for a very long time. Obviously you forget things that you don't use often. I learned like 50 knots (and passed with flying colors) but only use 3 or 4 types after 10 years however I also learned that you have to give way to unpowered vessels and last year I saw a Netherland flagged motor yacht whose Portuguese skipper was screaming at a sailboat to make way for him and that he was calling the coast Guard...



Enviado do meu GT-I9195 através de Tapatalk
__________________
tchavei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 15:15   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: 53°33'N 9°38'E
Boat: Mahogany Centerborder 30 foot, 1937
Posts: 77
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

In Germany for non-commercial vessels a license ("SBF") is only required with engines of more than 15 hp. Simple course without prerequisites, mostly theoretical. Comes in two flavors for coastal waters and rivers etc. Additional licences are offered, but not required.

Sent from my Lenovo B8080-H using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
woodenboats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 15:24   #12
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Not good.

There is no evidence that licensing will help people be more responsible about their obligations. There is licensing where we are, and it does not stop skippers from driving like idiots. Cheechako mentioned how (in)effective it is for automobiles. Licensing is usually a way for States to gain revenue. We are already taxed enough. There are so many bureaucratic hoops to jump through in life, do we really want another?

It's funny, in a way, 'cause i felt really proud, as a 16 yr. old, to get my first drivers' license, it was like a coming of age ceremony.

However, I really do think we'll see licensing for vessels over a certain length at some time, it will be another futile effort to legislate safety, probably ineffective at its goal, because the irresponsible ones will forget everything they learned to take the tests, and you'll wind up with what we have now: those who want to educate themselves, do, and the others don't know (or forgot) what to do.

Ann
I feel the same way about doctors. Why should I not be able to perform surgery just because I don't have a license....

Oh wait there is a huge body of evidence that licensing does help reduce boating accidents. With most studies indicating a reduction in fatalities of about 50% by imp,I ending mandatory licensing for recreational boaters.

If you have ever seen these courses frankly if you can't pass them you shouldn't be on the water (at least for the US courses).

I am not sure we need multiple licenses, broken down by boat size and distance from shore, but a basic idea of how boats work is a good idea.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 15:39   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,471
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Oh wait there is a huge body of evidence that licensing does help reduce boating accidents. With most studies indicating a reduction in fatalities of about 50% by imp,I ending mandatory licensing for recreational boaters.
This is a bit confusing... perhaps a typo... but really, the vast majority of accidents and of fatalities involve small power boats, not sailing vessels. Thus, the quoted statistics have little bearing on our type of boating.

There are certainly numbers of sailors who have little knowledge of the rules of the road, buoyage, radio procedures and weather analysis. I somehow doubt that licensing, unless quite draconian in its requirements, will change that very much.

I guess I'd be happy if folks did know more about things relating to COLREGS, etc, but can't believe that licensing will help that much... just my sort of cynical opinion!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 16:44   #14
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Jim,

Arguing that a badly designed class won't help it pretty self defeating. On the other hand a basic class on rules of the road, navigation, no wake zones, docking, combined with a test out procedure would go a long way to reduce accidents.

I would not argue that a multi-day captains course is really needed, but a couple of hours of instruction would help out a lot.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 16:58   #15
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Good. There are plenty of licensed car drivers that are idiots.

Bad. There are plenty of licensed car drivers that are idiots.

Waste of time, new govt bureaucracy.
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
certification, license, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Realistically, how much will it cost to own and run my own sailboat? willumsen Boat Ownership & Making a Living 5 06-06-2013 17:27
Any Girls Start and Operate the 4 Cycle Honda 2hp Outboard? Free Agent Engines and Propulsion Systems 44 26-08-2012 16:07
When Is the STCW Certification Required ? off-the-grid Training, Licensing & Certification 5 02-09-2011 18:56
Where Is a 'Title / Certification' Required ? Adax Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 11 28-01-2011 09:12
What Training and Certification Are Required to Be a Surveyor ? CaptainBW Liveaboard's Forum 3 11-08-2010 12:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.