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Old 22-05-2016, 04:36   #61
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

What makes a REAL license?
That is the hard part
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Old 22-05-2016, 05:18   #62
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

One the you have to stand in line and pay for


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Old 22-05-2016, 05:22   #63
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Man's primal yearning is to return to the sea, and some will drown themselves to satisfy the need. Translated to " ya can't fix stupid "
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Old 22-05-2016, 08:46   #64
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Once the government gets involved, we are screwed! I'm in favor of licensing but we have the wrong folks overseeing it. Government officials, with the exception of the military, are usually ill informed, lack experience and are generally useless when it comes to executing anything! Military excepted...
Find a government program that has been successfully implemented and I'll bet they hired a private contractor to do it. Cheers, Phil
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Old 22-05-2016, 09:46   #65
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

In the US I credit the Power Squadron and the CGAuxiliary with keeping boating accidents and boating deaths at a level that keeps the gov. at bay.

Before GPS and the proliferation of boats after the use of fiberglass boaters' self preservation and common sense prompted them to take a few courses and learn a little about the rules of the road, safety requirements and piloting before or immediately after buying a boat. I know I was.

Fast forward to fiberglass, GPS and overflowing marinas and boat ramps and more than a few people are making some bonehead moves on the water, but not to the extent that injuries and fatalities are significant enough for the public to demand tha gov. get involved.

As an example, Massachusetts has had, for many years, a lisencing bill ready to be passed. It is nearly identical to Connecticuts' lisencing law. They are simply waiting for a catalyst to pass the bill; a boating accident that makes headlines. At that point the bill will be passed within days. The politicians will have come to the rescue.

By the way, according the the MA officials I talked to, the lisencing law would initially operate in the red, which is why it needs a catalyst to pass. After it passes, fees will rise to make it a fiscal winner for the politicians. Also, over the last several years, despite the CT lisencing requirement, CT has seen its share of fatal boating accidents.
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Old 22-05-2016, 10:02   #66
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pirate Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Once the government gets involved, we are screwed! I'm in favor of licensing but we have the wrong folks overseeing it. Government officials, with the exception of the military, are usually ill informed, lack experience and are generally useless when it comes to executing anything! Military excepted...
Cheers, Phil
Having served I'm entitled to dispute that..
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Old 22-05-2016, 11:22   #67
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

This thread has devolved in to exactly the two camps I would have expected when I saw the title. Those against any and all regulations that might infringe upon their god-given right to kill themselves, hurt themselves, and more importantly to kill and harm others who might have the audacity to be on the water at the same time or be sent out to save, at their own risk, the idiots who manage to do stupid things from not knowing better. Whew - my grammar teacher would say that is a "run-on sentence".

Washington state now has a mandatory boater safety instruction and card regulation, with fines etc. for those who don't do it. Those born before 1955 are exempt (i.e. grandfathered in). I was born before that so I don't have to have it but my wife and I took it several years ago when we got our first boat. It was a good course. Very basic. Excellent topics. Not hard but you did have to learn some things to pass the multiple choice exam.
boat.wa.gov - Boating Safety and Education

I think it was worth every nickel spent.

My personal opinion is that I don't mind if someone wants to be "free" and do what they want. However, I do mind when a clueless unknowledgable skipper puts his crew at risk, puts other boaters at risk, or puts responders like the USCG at risk to save their miserable butts. There are thousands of very knowledgeable skippers out there (I suspect the huge majority of CF posters) who won't benefit much from a course like this. There are more thousands of wannabe boaters who absolutely need a course like this.

Does every wannabe boater need it? Probably not, but most all would benefit. It really isn't much of a burden. Despite what the libertarians would say. Please take the political mantra out of this type of discussion.

boat.wa.gov - Boating Safety and Education
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Old 22-05-2016, 13:09   #68
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
Good idea or bad idea?
Up to a point.

A Laser is a sailboat and an Oyster 115 is a sailboat.

So which sailboat are we talking about?

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Old 22-05-2016, 14:07   #69
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
This thread has devolved in to exactly the two camps I would have expected when I saw the title. Those against any and all regulations that might infringe upon their god-given right to kill themselves, hurt themselves, and more importantly to kill and harm others who might have the audacity to be on the water at the same time or be sent out to save, at their own risk, the idiots who manage to do stupid things from not knowing better. Whew - my grammar teacher would say that is a "run-on sentence".
[...]
IMO, driving a car is a much more dangerous activity than commanding a boat, if only because of the amount and variety of objects against you can collide and the speed at which you can do it. Yet the requirements -in heavily regulated countries like mine- are much more stringent for the later. I truly learned to sail in some courses I had voluntarily -heck, it was a lot of fun- with experienced instructors many years ago, not by memorising a thick manual (most of which will be forgotten after some weeks).

I agree that every sailor should be familiar with COLREGS and IALA signals, but little more is required for the sake of safety. And even that is usually printed in a nice sticker inside the cabin. The rest is just knowing where your limits are, and no exam can assess that point. You can do stupid but legal things both with an without a license.

I'm more for the simplest approach: you buy a boat, and sail her. It doesn't seem to cause a lot of trouble in the countries where it's like that.
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Old 22-05-2016, 14:47   #70
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

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IMO, driving a car is a much more dangerous activity than commanding a boat, if only because of the amount and variety of objects against you can collide and the speed at which you can do it. Yet the requirements -in heavily regulated countries like mine- are much more stringent for the later. I truly learned to sail in some courses I had voluntarily -heck, it was a lot of fun- with experienced instructors many years ago, not by memorising a thick manual (most of which will be forgotten after some weeks).

I agree that every sailor should be familiar with COLREGS and IALA signals, but little more is required for the sake of safety. And even that is usually printed in a nice sticker inside the cabin. The rest is just knowing where your limits are, and no exam can assess that point. You can do stupid but legal things both with an without a license.

I'm more for the simplest approach: you buy a boat, and sail her. It doesn't seem to cause a lot of trouble in the countries where it's like that.
When I had decided to buy a boat I asked a friend of mine who owned a boat what I needed to have onboard to be safe. He answered a few questions and said I needed to take the basic boating class with the Power Squadron. I'd get tons of questions answered there.

Number one, like you and others here, I had a natural desire for self preservation. I wanted to be safe on the water so I looked for answers. In my case the answers came not from government but from the private (in the American sense,) sector. As you said, "...It doesn't seem to cause a lot of trouble in the countries where it's like that."
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Old 22-05-2016, 15:25   #71
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Once the government gets involved, we are screwed! I'm in favor of licensing but we have the wrong folks overseeing it. Government officials, with the exception of the military, are usually ill informed, lack experience and are generally useless when it comes to executing anything! Military excepted...
Find a government program that has been successfully implemented and I'll bet they hired a private contractor to do it. Cheers, Phil
Well, that might be true where you come from
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Old 22-05-2016, 16:50   #72
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertie68 View Post

(...)

I'm more for the simplest approach: you buy a boat, and sail her. It doesn't seem to cause a lot of trouble in the countries where it's like that.
Bertie,

I think what you want will work in some places not in others.

Then think about boat size. I think it is OK to operate a small and slow craft and a pain in the back when any government want to license kayakers or small traditional coastal fishers (like the Old Man and the Sea).

I would insist though on obligatory training and certification of boats bigger than X and / or propelled with hp engines bigger than Y.

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Old 22-05-2016, 17:02   #73
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Interesting discussion about the regional or national discrepancies in mandatory licensing for pleasure boaters and in fact different types of operating rights.

Just wondering, what influences the state to decide on this?
"Liability Issues" or the strength of the "Lobby Groups"?

Why must you be SCUBA certified to buy air? but not a large yacht of many tons?
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Old 22-05-2016, 17:11   #74
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No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Licensing in the US is crazy. I need a commercial drivers license with an air brake endorsement to drive a large truck (CDL-B). But any knucklehead can buy a huge motor home built on THE SAME CHASSIS as the trucks I sometimes drive. With a CDL I am held to higher standard, not the knucklehead. The person with a motor home is not even required to show that they know how to do a basic air brake test.

Same with boats. Want to get paid to move a boat? Need a license. Yet anyone can write a big check, buy the boat, and operate it.

Ok rant over
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Old 22-05-2016, 17:18   #75
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Re: No certification or license required to own and operate a sailboat...

Let's be realistic. Sail Boats are not really a problem on the water ways.

Powered boats on the other hand can be. Jet Ski's for example ran rife around here for a number of years before they clamped down on their use.

And I've experienced Sydney Harbour (only once) with their massive big, many HP recreational motor boats that cause problems through their ignorance to both other recreational and commerical vessels on the water.

At some stage, the line has to be drawn.
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