License for Boating?#%#@%&^

[Knottygirlz]

Originally Posted by Knottygirlz

As a final note, Rick and I are registering next Wednesday to take our course and write the test for our cards. Total cost $100.00 for both of us. Seems pretty reasonable to me....

As a footnote to this, Rick and I went yesterday and took the course and then wrote the exam to get our cards.

The course was pretty interesting, the instructor was not. Nonetheless, we both passed the final exam with flying colours and will get our Operator's card in the mail in 6 weeks or so. This competency card is recognized in both Canada and the US.

Lori

[Benny]

My whole family - 5 of us took the course in our home last spring and wrote the exam same day and all passed - received our cards shortly thereafter total cost - $250.00. I figured we might as well all get it at the same time and the college offered a home visit for groups of 4 or more.

[Knottygirlz]

I think it was well worth the $50.00 each. There were 5 or 6 of us taking the course on Saturday - the age range was from 10 years old to one gentleman in his late 60's. The boy knew his stuff, too! He has been taking sailing lessons for several years already. He did have some difficulties with some of the words on the test, so we helped him a little with that. He was doing the last few questions when his father arrived to pick him up, so we never did find out how he did. I certainly hope he passed.

Lori

[mudnut]

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Since there have been SO many instances of recreational vessels being used for terrorism...Oh well. And I suppose they have discussed provisions for those who are state licensed? What about when other countries start requiring licensing? Will those be recognized? What about people sailing in from a country where a license isn't required? What a load of garbage! Bad things need to happen to people like that.
As for comparing it to auto licensing enforcement, police officers have to have a reason to stop you in a car. THe Coast Guard has explicit written authority to board at will, any vessel on navigable waters of the US. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that includes at your slip. For those who live aboard, but never go out, are they going to get cited? Who needs to be licensed anyway? Do my kids need a license if they stand watch? Nice to know big brother is putting so much thought into our "protection".

G'day Kai,the way ya said"Since there are SO many instances of recreational vessles being used for terrorism"sounds like ya got a lot of problems there.Sounds more like the Neo conservitive party in action ,as allways,geting you all worried and making you pay for it to boot.One thing is for sure.If little JOHNY HOWARD gets another inch up G W B's arse,It won't be long befor it's the "Norm" over here as well.Guess the world is getting smaller by the minute.But that saying is YRS old.9/11 scared the crap out of America,of all places,so they are vunerable.CG officer to sailor."Excuse me sir,could ya just drop ya daks while I put this glove on".Let me know what it feels like so I can prepare myself. Hope ya see the connection.Mudnut.

[mudnut]

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I think it is a good time to be a piranha.


A dangerous precident. It is OK to get this started, but the details are not agreable yet? This is one salesman whose foot needs to be chopped off in the door.


Remember that when they start to call it a privelidge. Actually, I do not recall any mention of boating in the bill of rights. I wonder where this proclaimation came from.

Let's see, a warship, in a war zone, was attacked by a small vessel (Commercial fishing vessel if I recall). HMMMM?

Yes, let's make sure we know EXACTLY who is out there. THeir name, age address... HMMM? I wonder if, like drivers licenses, you will be required to have a physical address to obtain the license? Could be an issue for those who are already cruising?

So, they are aware of this sort of issue, but will they address it? Or will they simply pass the buck to the state level, and cause us all the headache of trying to determine, as we sail from one state to another, what the rules are?


Tracking? What is next, check points and visas while traversing the ICW?

Yea, Right from the start. Amazing how much this comes across as an afterthought.
I am all for safety on the water. I am also for national safety. This ain't it. This is, yet another attempt from someone with a little power, to gain allot of power. There are thousands of laws passed around the country every year. Each and every one takes away something. Educate don't legislate. Make the information more available. Make it something people want. But, this is not even the point. The point was security. To those who would buy into this arguement, I will, at the risk if misquoting Ben Franklin, say, Those who would give up freedom for security, deserve neither.

Right On the button Kai.Mudnut.

[RichT]

Just came across this thread, and for what it's worth, thought I would toss in my .02 worth. Some very good points so far, but think about this.

1)not sure about other areas of the country, but have noticed here in Cal that there are frequent postings for "safety" courses, usually at moderate or even 0 cost, sometimes provided by USCG personnel.

2) anyone who thinks or suggests that licensing guarantees "safe" driving habits has never taken the 101 freeway in the afternoon traffic.

3) the guys who flew into the world trade center had become "licensed" as private pilots. True they were not licensed to airline standards, but if a "terrorist" wanted to use a boat for his evil deeds, how hard would it be for him/her/them to become licensed???

4) I would point out the news story about the Hispanic in W. Virginia who killed 2 women while driving DUI. He was an illegal immigrant who had, in fact, been apprehended 3 times previously, and let go. If we can't keep an illegal immigrant off the roadways, which already have established "licensing" procedures, how the heck are you going to do any better with boats, where there are far fewer policing authorities???

I'm all for safe boating and education, but I don't see any way that the proposed regulations would significantly improve on what is already available, and the idea of it providing additional "security" from terrorist attacks is totally invalid at best.

Just some thoughts to ponder.....

RichT

[mudnut]

RichT is so right.Look at whats happening in Iraqu.

[shellback]

I agree with most here! I find it amusing that by considering recreational boaters require licensing to help protect against terrorism. The best post I saw in this thread was relating to Drivers licenses= still having car bombs, pilot's license = planes being hijacked and piloted. Soooo , if we do recreational boats, the U.S. government will again strip our liberties and rights to enjoy this recreational and way of life for many!

Next thing you know, hover-rounds, walkers and wheelchairs will need to have operators licenses for fear of retirees going "postal" and wheeling up to a checkpoint or weigh station along some hightway somewhere to become a martyr due to pot-holes and excessive toll prices! This country goes overboard wayyyy too often! Maybe we should dump our countries leaders overboard into the drink and ..*oops* forgot the lifesling or the MOB pole. (don't get me started LOL) and I'm a veteran, so yeah I like speaking my mind! LOL

[Brent Swain]

This is a make work , personal empire building effort by the Commandante, which will increase drastically his personal wealth and power, if the govt follows his advice.. When governments make decisions ,who do they ask for advice? Those with the Comandante's personal interest in expanding the bureaucracy exponentially. Not the ones who campaigned for and elected them.
Do they look at the Comandante's personal stake in what he is proposing?
Not a chance.
I completely avoid the US now, as do many people, for just this reason. I've noticed a huge increase of Europeans comming tio Canada now, and I've heard that the number of European tourists visiting the states has dropped by 40%, for good reason.
Brent

[mohave_steve]

I just can't keep my mouth shut on this one....

In general I am very much "anti-license" and pro natural selection. I would prefer to continue to operate my boat without any more government meddling than we currently have to deal with. I would prefer to see those, as a previous poster described, with more horsepower than sense remove themselves from the gene pool.

Unfortunatly too many of the idiots have tried to take someone else (me) with them.

We cannot opperate an airplane, motorcycle or automobile without first demonstrating some level of competence. We can, without ever having been on a boat before, step aboard and operate a 10ton 800hp boat on a public waterway.

I live less than 3 miles from a very popular waterway. There are three boat launches within 15 minutes of my home. Where do I spend my time on the water? I drive 4 hours to the Coast. At least there I can put a reasonable distance between myself and the 6-pack operators. No, not the OUPV Captains. I mean the all too common stinkboat operators who find it necessary to consume a 6pack (or more) while under way.

Is licensing the solution? I hate to see it but I have not seen any other proposals that would require the demonstration of some level of competence before operating a boat.

I would love to see something similar to the SCUBA community. No government involvement. Standards created by other divers. No license required but unless you have demonstrated competence(C-card) most shops won't fill your tanks. Most dive operators won't let you dive from thier boat. Most other divers won't dive with you.

Probably not practical but a nice thought...... Self policing by the community to make it safer for all......

Rant complete.

[jdoe71]

Can't disagree with much of what you say. We're in a parallel situation, live 1500 yards from the Trent-Severn Waterway but we drive 2 hours to our boat on Lake Ont. You couldn't pay me to take a boat on the Trent-Severn in the summer, cottagers with no clue about rules of the road, jet skis who think wakes are to use for jumping into your cockpit and monster motor go-fast boats with no mufflers at 90 mph on tiny lakes. Just lunacy.

The Feds instituted licencing up here for little tiny boats but you can still buy a 1000 horsepower 100 mph boat without having a scrap of competency. Meanwhile, with 35 years of safe commercial and recreational boating experience I have to get a licence to operate my 8' dinghy with a 3.5 hp outboard. I guess that make sense to someone but none to me.

This eventually is supposed to apply to all boats, but the exam itself is so lax and easy to cheat on that it's meaningless. A friend of mine did the exam on the internet, actually he got his brother to do it on the internet for him. I went fishing with him one day in his fishing boat and he asked me what the green and red tin cans in the water meant. I told him to take me back to shore right then and there.

I would agree to your scuba analogy back 20 years ago but when I see how they certify people now and the things sport divers do I shudder. The concept is good, the execution has become lax.

Bottom line is you can't teach common sense and that's something that is lacking in so many people in our world now.

[David M]

As a guy who has to have a license anyway to run a research boat, from my purely selfish perspective, I see no problem with requiring everyone to have a license. It just might make my job safer.

In general I am against the government further meddling into our lives, unfortunately, from what I see on an almost daily basis, something needs to be done.

The water is sort of the Wild West compared to aircraft or the roads. The attitude of too many seems to be that there are no laws out on the water.

[hellosailor]

SCUBA is a warped example. Many of the shops and boat operators live in fear of insurers and lawsuits, many take shortcuts anyway. Most of them can't live without resort or travel business and that means generating certified divers, even if the folks should be flunked out instead of certified. The old NASDS "panic hazing" screening isn't used by any of the current organizations, who are afraid that screening out panic-prone divers will either cause problems, or cut their resort travel sales. And then you wind up with orgaizations like PADI, who "nuggetize" everything and create a universe of multiple bite-size certifications and extra courses for everything. At least one boat operator won't let anyone take a hand spear into the water unless they have a spearfishing certification.
Licensing can be overdone and meaningless. But it wasn't needed for cars or planes either--until people made such a ruckus over liability and dangers that the politicians were forced to act. Boating? Is it any different?

[jdoe71]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The old NASDS "panic hazing" screening isn't used by any of the current organizations, who are afraid that screening out panic-prone divers will either cause problems, or cut their resort travel sales. And then you wind up with orgaizations like PADI, who "nuggetize" everything and create a universe of multiple bite-size certifications and extra courses for everything.

Off topic I guess, but that pretty much sums up my concerns. Sport divers on mixed gas? Free diving to near toxic depths? Unbelievable. I always believed the best, safest training was from clubs that had nothing to sell.

[High Cotton]

WONDERFUL!
It's not the U.S. Coast Guard that concerns me..... it's these waterway cops up and down the ICW in South Florida that's a pain in the ass..... you go 10 miles up the ICW and you'll pass through 10 different cities with their own "deputy dogs" in center consoles with nothing better to do than check "boating licenses" !

The people they need to be after is the IDIOT in a "go-fast" boat that nearly ran up my stern one night about 11pm after returning from the Ft. Lauderdale Christmas Boat Parade.... that's why I can't go out on the water at nite in MIAMI !

South Florida is a dangerous place........ every weekend we either hear of someone NOT turning on their blower at the fuel dock and they EXPLODE when starting or some other accident with IDIOTS at the wheel. So Sad!