Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

[redhead]

It's an old ferro Ian Ross design started in 79 and finished in 81. Built in Vancouver BC by a guy who captained cargo boats up to Alaska (so probably overbuilt by our standards). Since this is my first ferro boat (we had steel and plastic before) I'm still learning the building method and am not sure if he overbuilt it or the style is/was typical. (This building description goes on for pages, I'm condensing)

"22 transverse webs of 5/16" bar connected by steel cleats welded to inner and outer frame on 26" centers. 1/4" round bar welded both transversely and longitudinally on 2" centers. Four layers of 1/2" wire mesh then secured to inner and outer framework. The stem is 1/2" x6" flat plate on end to which all is connected. The hull is a uniform 1" thick cured for 30 days in temperature controlled building. Four transverse bulkhead of ferrocement with watertight doors as needed. 17enclosed partial bulkheads built up to the sole forming watertight compartments>...." Plus 17' beam and 10' draft - you know the story.

It goes on and on, the boat is monstrous heavy and she is slow but has a sea-kindly motion undersail. Aren't you sorry you asked?????? (It's like asking to see a picture of someone's kids, you get way more than you wanted...)

[Goosebumps]

Can I be your app? Serious apps wont ge able to give you that feel you must aquire to float your boat to where you need, want it.

[FamilyVan]

This might sound low tech, but what about a white board or chalk board?

You and you're partner can draw out different scenarios, discuss with different wind directions, varying currents, discuss how your prop walk will affect you in forward, in reverse, how the wind will deflect the boat in different conditions, challenge each other, discuss, argue (nicely).

I spent some time in the tour boat industry, where dock real estate is scarce and and fast docking= revenue gained.

That's how we would do it whenever we got new boats or new docks or changed things up for whatever reason. 4 or 5 Captains would get together with a whiteboard and discuss every possible scenario, pick apart each others plan and come to a consensus for best practices before ever even stepping on board the boat.

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[yachtcowboy]

I would add just two comments to this post:
1 NEUTRAL IS YOUR FRIEND, better to drift into a crash than power to try to avoid and hit at 3-5 knots.
2 ONLY GO AS FAST AS YOU WANT TO HIT SOMETHING. Have people on board with fenders in their hands, never fend off with body parts. Boats repair easily, broken limbs take years and possibly forever to heal.

[Stu Jackson]

Dead slow is usually the kiss of death.

The part that folks "worry" about is prop walk.

When does prop walk happen?

When you're going dead slow.

Use some speed to get water going over your rudder and you can control the boat.

Learn to USE prop walk to turn your boat in its own length.

Practice, practice, practice.

Then do it some more.

Most people only come back to a dock at the end of a long day.

Take an ENTIRE DAY and do NOTHING BUT practice docking.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Take an ENTIRE DAY and do NOTHING BUT practice docking.

But first get a bouncy ball or some other marker and practice turning around it.

Then find an open space, place the boat in reverse and learn to drive backwards. Hint, on my boat I have zero control until the speed hits about 1kt.

Once you can handle the boat doing figure 8's around objects, then practice docking.

In S Fla, waiting for bridges is also a good training spot.



Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

[kcrobby]

Wow, so many comments. Thank you guys. Meanwhile I found a very cool app for iPad and iOS.
It´s named "Dock your Boat" (by sfinx-it). It offers 3 different boats and prop walk effect and adjustable weather situation. You can even move arround fenders and work with lines. Our instructor who is an experienced sailor said, it´s the best he has ever seen on a tablet.
The programmer himself seems to be a sailor!

It´s worth the 3$

https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/dock...at/id848416956
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...it.docktheboat

[Emmalina]

Always found propr walk useful on light spade rudder boats but once you start talking about full keel heavy displacement boats its a very different story ! Wind tides and all other things make a difference and I doubt an app could even cover mass production boats with all the variables. We are full keel and heavy but I have only lightly scrapped one boat in 10 years (bought the guy a pack of beer ) whith my anchor but everytime its different. Play !

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by mackconsult

Nothing that would be any good. Time in the boat is what I always tell people, find some one experienced willing to help you practice maneuvers.

I do this as a service in my coastguardcaptain.com company.

I agree with this, it's about acquiring a feel for things (and of course a feel for the specific boat you are on), and you can't really get this in most simulators (affordable ones anyway).

I always liked to do lots of practice, well out of the way of other people, so as not to be a nuisance, and I will do the same again when I get my boat.

You don't have to have something potentially damaging to practice manoeuvring up to and away from. Make your own boat length 'berth' with a couple of large floats (anything inflatable you can attach a mooring line to and a weight at the bottom), so you have decent visibility of them from a 100 yds or more away.

Find somewhere with suitable depth, and drop one off the bow, and one off the stern. Then practice manoeuvring to them and away from them in every direction. Then you can do this somewhere with a good flow of water, and also in different wind conditions.

Just make sure you have plenty of sea room available so if you concentrate too much on the 'berth' to start with, anything unexpected cropping up isn't likely to cause you a problem.

Of course if you use a few more floats, you can set up points to manoeuvre around and between on your way to and from the 'berth'. Heck I'll also be practicing throwing a line at one, and try and consistently hit it. This also makes things a bit more challenging, and a lot more fun.

Once you have the hang of it and the feel for it, with the engine, try it just with sails.

PS I am going to spend a lot of time doing this type of practice, because the boat I will be getting will be a traditional long keel, and I haven't had to handle one of my own yet (most I have sailed have been bilge keel, so I have a lot to learn).

We all have a seat of the pants thing somewhere, all we have to do, is find it and polish it off.

[sailorchic34]

Slow is pro.

While an app will let you play around, it really will not give you a feel of winds, current and how the boat handles. Every boat is different. Different rudder inputs, different windages, etc. different turn rates

Practice and lots of it will get you there.

Myself and I have been docking single handed for 8 years now, double handed for 2 more years, I'm in neutral going 2 to 21/2 knots 3 fingers before my slip. Then I use rudder to adjust approach. If everything is perfect, I need just a touch of reverse to slow the boat enough to let my step off and tie it up. If the winds are up, I use a few seconds of engine power to adjust speed. Sometimes I'll use prop walk to get the stern over better.

The first 10 dockings or so will be white knuckle as even slow getting a big boat in a small slip seems daunting. After your first 100 docks life will be much better and after your first 1000 it's almost never a problem.

It also depends on if your going to a full finger dock or a half finger with pilings to tie too. The last is a bit harder to do single or even double handed handed.

When backing out of a slip, which is the easier part, you need enough speed (way) across the rudder so that it will respond to input. As my boat is full keel, I get some way on and then shift into neutral backing up. This does two things, it stops propwalk and allows the rudder smoother water where it will respond faster to input. Full keel boats tend to back like a drunken elephant. More modern designs tend to be better behaved in reverse.

[Safari38LH]

I was once told that if I wasn't bored when docking/maneuvering, then I was going to fast. It's always worked for me.


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[japarker11]

Kc,

A lot of good advice has been put forth in previous posts. A couple of things to add.

Entering and exiting a marina with a single screw vessel is the most stressful situation for the helmsperson and crew. The variables are too many to model. I used to think landing a plane took the top spot. Not even close, enter a strange harbor at night, some breeze, lighted buoys drowned out by shore traffic signals, some current.....and doing it with a partner to boot.

For techniques on boat handling, check out the YouTube videos posted by the Maryland School of Sailing. Practicing each situation and rotating crew positions will bring the confidence levels up. And, remember, boat hooks and fenders are your friends.

All else fails, order the bow thruster!!!

John

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[Our Tyme]

Your analogy of landing a plane and docking to me is off. I remember the first landing (ASEL) and docking a boat. Both had me nervous as a goat in a lion's den. But with that said each good one builds self confidence and each one that is not so good builds experience. Remember to think about what could have been done better after each and every docking (or Landing).

Ken

[chuckr]

[QUOTE=sailorchic34;1973306]Slow is pro.

While an app will let you play around, it really will not give you a feel of winds, current and how the boat handles. Every boat is different. Different rudder inputs, different windages, etc. different turn rates

Practice and lots of it will get you there.

Myself and I have been docking single handed for 8 years now, double handed for 2 more years, I'm in neutral going 2 to 21/2 knots 3 fingers before my slip. Then I use rudder to adjust approach. If everything is perfect, I need just a touch of reverse to slow the boat enough to let my step off and tie it up. If the winds are up, I use a few seconds of engine power to adjust speed. Sometimes I'll use prop walk to get the stern over better.

The first 10 dockings or so will be white knuckle as even slow getting a big boat in a small slip seems daunting. After your first 100 docks life will be much better and after your first 1000 it's almost never a problem.


HUM -- try slow in 20-35k winds when doing a stern to and see where you end up -- oh and do a med mooring with your anchor and try not to cross your neighbors anchor -- sometimes you need a bit of speed to counter act the weather and get in and just before the dock a quick shift to forward to stay off the dock but close enough to tie up -- PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE with a real boat --