Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-10-2015, 13:12   #16
Registered User
 
redhead's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: PNW 48.59'45N 122.45'50W
Boat: Ian Ross design ketch 63'
Posts: 764
Images: 5
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

It's an old ferro Ian Ross design started in 79 and finished in 81. Built in Vancouver BC by a guy who captained cargo boats up to Alaska (so probably overbuilt by our standards). Since this is my first ferro boat (we had steel and plastic before) I'm still learning the building method and am not sure if he overbuilt it or the style is/was typical. (This building description goes on for pages, I'm condensing)

"22 transverse webs of 5/16" bar connected by steel cleats welded to inner and outer frame on 26" centers. 1/4" round bar welded both transversely and longitudinally on 2" centers. Four layers of 1/2" wire mesh then secured to inner and outer framework. The stem is 1/2" x6" flat plate on end to which all is connected. The hull is a uniform 1" thick cured for 30 days in temperature controlled building. Four transverse bulkhead of ferrocement with watertight doors as needed. 17enclosed partial bulkheads built up to the sole forming watertight compartments>...." Plus 17' beam and 10' draft - you know the story.

It goes on and on, the boat is monstrous heavy and she is slow but has a sea-kindly motion undersail. Aren't you sorry you asked?????? (It's like asking to see a picture of someone's kids, you get way more than you wanted...)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	marc and sandblast.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	414.4 KB
ID:	110842   Click image for larger version

Name:	looking fwd.JPG
Views:	153
Size:	103.4 KB
ID:	110843  

__________________

__________________
redhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2015, 03:45   #17
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Africa
Boat: catalac 10m
Posts: 351
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Can I be your app? Serious apps wont ge able to give you that feel you must aquire to float your boat to where you need, want it.
__________________

__________________
Goosebumps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2015, 05:24   #18
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

This might sound low tech, but what about a white board or chalk board?

You and you're partner can draw out different scenarios, discuss with different wind directions, varying currents, discuss how your prop walk will affect you in forward, in reverse, how the wind will deflect the boat in different conditions, challenge each other, discuss, argue (nicely).

I spent some time in the tour boat industry, where dock real estate is scarce and and fast docking= revenue gained.

That's how we would do it whenever we got new boats or new docks or changed things up for whatever reason. 4 or 5 Captains would get together with a whiteboard and discuss every possible scenario, pick apart each others plan and come to a consensus for best practices before ever even stepping on board the boat.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2015, 09:20   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Marathon, FL
Boat: Pearson 530 Cutter/ketch 53
Posts: 36
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

I would add just two comments to this post:
1 NEUTRAL IS YOUR FRIEND, better to drift into a crash than power to try to avoid and hit at 3-5 knots.
2 ONLY GO AS FAST AS YOU WANT TO HIT SOMETHING. Have people on board with fenders in their hands, never fend off with body parts. Boats repair easily, broken limbs take years and possibly forever to heal.
__________________
yachtcowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2015, 10:03   #20
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Dead slow is usually the kiss of death.

The part that folks "worry" about is prop walk.

When does prop walk happen?

When you're going dead slow.

Use some speed to get water going over your rudder and you can control the boat.

Learn to USE prop walk to turn your boat in its own length.

Practice, practice, practice.

Then do it some more.

Most people only come back to a dock at the end of a long day.

Take an ENTIRE DAY and do NOTHING BUT practice docking.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2015, 15:00   #21
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St Petersburg
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,880
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post

Take an ENTIRE DAY and do NOTHING BUT practice docking.

But first get a bouncy ball or some other marker and practice turning around it.

Then find an open space, place the boat in reverse and learn to drive backwards. Hint, on my boat I have zero control until the speed hits about 1kt.

Once you can handle the boat doing figure 8's around objects, then practice docking.

In S Fla, waiting for bridges is also a good training spot.



Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ishmael
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 14:29   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Wow, so many comments. Thank you guys. Meanwhile I found a very cool app for iPad and iOS.
Itīs named "Dock your Boat" (by sfinx-it). It offers 3 different boats and prop walk effect and adjustable weather situation. You can even move arround fenders and work with lines. Our instructor who is an experienced sailor said, itīs the best he has ever seen on a tablet.
The programmer himself seems to be a sailor!

Itīs worth the 3$

https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/dock...at/id848416956
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...it.docktheboat
__________________
kcrobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 15:00   #23
Marine Service Provider
 
Emmalina's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Thailand
Boat: Herreshoff Caribbean 50
Posts: 482
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Always found propr walk useful on light spade rudder boats but once you start talking about full keel heavy displacement boats its a very different story ! Wind tides and all other things make a difference and I doubt an app could even cover mass production boats with all the variables. We are full keel and heavy but I have only lightly scrapped one boat in 10 years (bought the guy a pack of beer ) whith my anchor but everytime its different. Play !
__________________
Steve .. It was the last one that did this !
Emmalina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 05:26   #24
Registered User
 
Ribbit's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 655
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackconsult View Post
Nothing that would be any good. Time in the boat is what I always tell people, find some one experienced willing to help you practice maneuvers.

I do this as a service in my coastguardcaptain.com company.
I agree with this, it's about acquiring a feel for things (and of course a feel for the specific boat you are on), and you can't really get this in most simulators (affordable ones anyway).

I always liked to do lots of practice, well out of the way of other people, so as not to be a nuisance, and I will do the same again when I get my boat.

You don't have to have something potentially damaging to practice manoeuvring up to and away from. Make your own boat length 'berth' with a couple of large floats (anything inflatable you can attach a mooring line to and a weight at the bottom), so you have decent visibility of them from a 100 yds or more away.

Find somewhere with suitable depth, and drop one off the bow, and one off the stern. Then practice manoeuvring to them and away from them in every direction. Then you can do this somewhere with a good flow of water, and also in different wind conditions.

Just make sure you have plenty of sea room available so if you concentrate too much on the 'berth' to start with, anything unexpected cropping up isn't likely to cause you a problem.

Of course if you use a few more floats, you can set up points to manoeuvre around and between on your way to and from the 'berth'. Heck I'll also be practicing throwing a line at one, and try and consistently hit it. This also makes things a bit more challenging, and a lot more fun.

Once you have the hang of it and the feel for it, with the engine, try it just with sails.

PS I am going to spend a lot of time doing this type of practice, because the boat I will be getting will be a traditional long keel, and I haven't had to handle one of my own yet (most I have sailed have been bilge keel, so I have a lot to learn).

We all have a seat of the pants thing somewhere, all we have to do, is find it and polish it off.
__________________
Ribbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 08:59   #25
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Slow is pro.

While an app will let you play around, it really will not give you a feel of winds, current and how the boat handles. Every boat is different. Different rudder inputs, different windages, etc. different turn rates

Practice and lots of it will get you there.

Myself and I have been docking single handed for 8 years now, double handed for 2 more years, I'm in neutral going 2 to 21/2 knots 3 fingers before my slip. Then I use rudder to adjust approach. If everything is perfect, I need just a touch of reverse to slow the boat enough to let my step off and tie it up. If the winds are up, I use a few seconds of engine power to adjust speed. Sometimes I'll use prop walk to get the stern over better.

The first 10 dockings or so will be white knuckle as even slow getting a big boat in a small slip seems daunting. After your first 100 docks life will be much better and after your first 1000 it's almost never a problem.

It also depends on if your going to a full finger dock or a half finger with pilings to tie too. The last is a bit harder to do single or even double handed handed.

When backing out of a slip, which is the easier part, you need enough speed (way) across the rudder so that it will respond to input. As my boat is full keel, I get some way on and then shift into neutral backing up. This does two things, it stops propwalk and allows the rudder smoother water where it will respond faster to input. Full keel boats tend to back like a drunken elephant. More modern designs tend to be better behaved in reverse.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 10:50   #26
Registered User
 
Safari38LH's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Marion, Ma
Boat: Little Harbor 38
Posts: 259
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

I was once told that if I wasn't bored when docking/maneuvering, then I was going to fast. It's always worked for me.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Safari38LH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 14:11   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 90
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Kc,

A lot of good advice has been put forth in previous posts. A couple of things to add.

Entering and exiting a marina with a single screw vessel is the most stressful situation for the helmsperson and crew. The variables are too many to model. I used to think landing a plane took the top spot. Not even close, enter a strange harbor at night, some breeze, lighted buoys drowned out by shore traffic signals, some current.....and doing it with a partner to boot.

For techniques on boat handling, check out the YouTube videos posted by the Maryland School of Sailing. Practicing each situation and rotating crew positions will bring the confidence levels up. And, remember, boat hooks and fenders are your friends.

All else fails, order the bow thruster!!!

John

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
japarker11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 11:24   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Norfolk, Va
Boat: 83 Tanzer 27
Posts: 39
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

Your analogy of landing a plane and docking to me is off. I remember the first landing (ASEL) and docking a boat. Both had me nervous as a goat in a lion's den. But with that said each good one builds self confidence and each one that is not so good builds experience. Remember to think about what could have been done better after each and every docking (or Landing).

Ken
__________________
Our Tyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2015, 01:46   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Underway in the Med -
Boat: Jeanneau 40 DS SoulMates
Posts: 1,904
Images: 1
Re: Is there any simulation app for harbour maneuvers ?

[QUOTE=sailorchic34;1973306]Slow is pro.

While an app will let you play around, it really will not give you a feel of winds, current and how the boat handles. Every boat is different. Different rudder inputs, different windages, etc. different turn rates

Practice and lots of it will get you there.

Myself and I have been docking single handed for 8 years now, double handed for 2 more years, I'm in neutral going 2 to 21/2 knots 3 fingers before my slip. Then I use rudder to adjust approach. If everything is perfect, I need just a touch of reverse to slow the boat enough to let my step off and tie it up. If the winds are up, I use a few seconds of engine power to adjust speed. Sometimes I'll use prop walk to get the stern over better.

The first 10 dockings or so will be white knuckle as even slow getting a big boat in a small slip seems daunting. After your first 100 docks life will be much better and after your first 1000 it's almost never a problem.


HUM -- try slow in 20-35k winds when doing a stern to and see where you end up -- oh and do a med mooring with your anchor and try not to cross your neighbors anchor -- sometimes you need a bit of speed to counter act the weather and get in and just before the dock a quick shift to forward to stay off the dock but close enough to tie up -- PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE with a real boat --
__________________

__________________
just our thoughts and opinions
chuck and svsoulmates
In Marmaris Turkey for the winter
chuckr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are there any app developers here? monte OpenCPN 25 19-06-2015 12:21
One of those hey there, hi there, ho there posts Noreasta Meets & Greets 13 25-09-2013 12:44
Google Earth Track and Simulation sinbad7 OpenCPN 5 07-09-2011 12:34
Harbor Maneuvers Jeanneau Off Topic Forum 46 09-11-2010 20:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.