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Old 27-01-2007, 23:09   #16
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Here here. I hate it when the Yanks come over here and get our locals hopes up with this tipping bullshyte. The service is lousey enough without them expecting a tip.
I can give them heaps of tips "Never pass a urinal, never waste an erection and never trust a fart".
Or so my mum always told me.
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Old 28-01-2007, 03:15   #17
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Sean,

Whilst (from what I hear) pay for jobs in the UK / Jersey like waiter etc are not exactly well paid but the basic is designed to provide some sort of basic living wage without the need for tips.

It will of course come as no surprise that the service provided quite often sucks! But this is probably more due to "cultural reasons"! And whilst like many people I do moan about the service I often receive (usuallly to do with a lack of pleasantness / the transactions being completed in Pidgin English) - I would prefer not to change to a system that meant folk relied on Tips. My attitude is that if an employer cannot afford to privide his employees with a living wage he just does not have a viable business. If he is just unwilling to privide a living wage I object partly on principal, but mainly cos I would have to pick up the difference from my tax bill. eventually.
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Old 28-01-2007, 03:39   #18
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey
Sean,

Whilst (from what I hear) pay for jobs in the UK / Jersey like waiter etc are not exactly well paid but the basic is designed to provide some sort of basic living wage without the need for tips.

It will of course come as no surprise that the service provided quite often sucks! But this is probably more due to "cultural reasons"! And whilst like many people I do moan about the service I often receive (usuallly to do with a lack of pleasantness / the transactions being completed in Pidgin English) - I would prefer not to change to a system that meant folk relied on Tips. My attitude is that if an employer cannot afford to privide his employees with a living wage he just does not have a viable business. If he is just unwilling to privide a living wage I object partly on principal, but mainly cos I would have to pick up the difference from my tax bill. eventually.
Great points. I couldn't agree more. Tips are also very unreliable as income as they depend on how busy the place is on a given night.
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Old 28-01-2007, 05:27   #19
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Perhaps I am overreacting to what is “normal” practice, seeing a deep socio-economic problem where none exists; but I find the practice and necessity of tipping repugnant.
I feel that people should not have to depend upon the kindness of strangers (which is what tipping is) to earn a living wage, and would much prefer raising prices to cover an increase in pay (or a Euro-style service charge).

Notwithstanding, the reality is, that service staff are usually paid substandard wages (*1), and depend upon tips to make ends meet. Withholding a tip deprives these exploited workers of a living wage. The tipping norm is now broadly accepted both as a matter of equity (to increase the wages of workers in the service industry), and as a matter of efficiency (to increase the quality of service*2).

*1 - In most US States, servers don't even get paid minimum wage by their employers - there is an exemption to the Federal minimum wage ($5.25/hr - many States have higher minimums) for tipped employees, that allows restaurants to pay them just a token couple of dollars an hour (as low as $1.59 /hour in Kansas and $3.85/hour in New York City).

*2 - Although research suggests that tips are not strongly correlated with quality of service, tipping (at least in theory) may induce better service.


Some tips on garnering tips:
Servers who squat down at the table, to look customers in the eye get about $1 more tip
Servers who smile or touch diners on the shoulder also net more cash
Men tip more than women if the server is female, women tip more than men if the server is male
Female servers who draw a happy face on the back of the check boost their tips, but male servers who do the same decrease their take
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Old 28-01-2007, 06:47   #20
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The tipping norm is now broadly accepted both as a matter of equity (to increase the wages of workers in the service industry), and as a matter of efficiency (to increase the quality of service*2).
The way I look at it is - the restaurant or bar is sharing the risk of operating a business. When business is hopping the wait staff can bring in a huge chunk of change at even a moderatly nice establishment. Especialy when the server is an attractive female and the clientele a group of guys running up a bar tab. I know several people who can easily gross $500 in tips on a busy weekend night. That's at a place no better than a TGIF chain restaurant. Of course that's before taxes (damn credit cards, no parsing out half the tip jar before the manager does) and only 1 or 2 nights a week. The rest of the time they make do with retired couples and high school students leaving pocket change. Of course no extra payday if it snows over the weekend, it's a holiday, their kid is sick and they can't work or the customers just don't show. Thus they share the business risk.

As for quality of service I've been told it has little to do with the tip unless it's a regular customer who is known to tip well. Service has more to do with how busy the place is, how does the server feel and maybe whether the customer looks like a tight-wad or a big tipper.
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Old 28-01-2007, 09:00   #21
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Hey folks, have we gotten off the thread?

I agree with many of you regarding tipping waiters, bartenders, etc. I refuse to put money in the tip jar at Starbucks, especially when I have to go to the counter to get my coffee and then add my own cream and sugar, etc. They don't even stir it for you!

I just asked about tipping sailing instructors, not waiters, bartenders, gas jockeys, newspaper boys. My ASA 101 instructor was also a Delaware Bay pilot who also taught courses on the weekend at the sailing school and I know he did not get paid very much at all by the school ( I have another friend who teaches at another school). There were 4 of us on a 22 ft. Capri and I think we chipped in $20 each.

Any actual experience with tipping sailing instructors out there?
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Old 28-01-2007, 09:33   #22
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There were 4 of us on a 22 ft. Capri and I think we chipped in $20 each.
It appears you felt satisfactory with that arrangement for that one time. I'm not sure there is a better rule of thumb. Some replies indicate they feel perfectly fine not tipping at all. I know people that never tip and never feel they should. They don't and feel just fine.

It may be better to have this discussion with the members of the class near the end of the course. Perhps that would reassure you that what ever tip or no tip you leave is satisfactory. I sure wouldn't get the tip ready before you arrive.
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Old 28-01-2007, 09:53   #23
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Paul,

Good advice - thanks.
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Old 28-01-2007, 10:05   #24
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Originally Posted by BobB
Any actual experience with tipping sailing instructors out there?
If only you had made it clear at the outset............
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Old 28-01-2007, 10:57   #25
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How Dare You Ask a Question I Dont' Want to Answer

From BobB's original post:
Quote:
Dear Readers,

I am off soon for an ASA103/104, week long sail. All sailing schools say "gratuities not included".

How much should the gratuity be? Advice on percent or amount would be appreciated.
It's pretty clear to me what BobB is asking for. You can't even address the question without having either first-hand experience in this area or of knowing about actual experiences of others (second-hand information, less valuable, but valuable nonetheless as it brings in the consideration of place and culture, which heavily influences social expectation, into the mix).

Don't bash the original poster just because he's trying to redirect the thread back to his question. The truth that experienced replies are worth more than theoretical musings and personal philosophies about "oppressed workers," or whatever other view points were expressed, should be self-evident.

But that's assuming a certain level of reading comprehension, so maybe it's not so self-evident for some.

As usual, Paul is kind and helpful.
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Old 28-01-2007, 11:20   #26
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Even as an unpaid volunteer instructor dealing with all ages and competency skills I was never tipped with cash. I did receive a beer or two and a T-shirt once. This is out of at least 10 years of doing instruction. Instructor qualifications through American Red Cross, Navy Sailing Association, U. S. Sailing.
I'm not certain why, now sailing instructors expect tips. Societal changes? Greedy people? I don't get it.
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Old 28-01-2007, 11:31   #27
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Oooops - maybe my last comment appeared a bit impolite. (too late to edit)

One of the probs of being on multiple forums / subject matters - can get the "styles" mixed up a bit sometimes..........must try harder!
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Old 28-01-2007, 12:09   #28
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Old 28-01-2007, 18:46   #29
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Have taken ASA 101/103 and 104/105.

Tipped a $100 for two of us with one instructor on the first class. 4 days, 9-5 only,no meals out, also bought him a couple of beers at graduation.

On the 104/105 I think the 4 students tipped about $125 each for the one week class. The course was about $1100 at that time I think. We also fed the captain/instructor out of our supplies and paid for his dinner when dining out. This was 7 days, 6 nights out. The captain was excellent and we all felt that he made a big difference. It also felt right based on our seperate prior experiences.

FYI, most of the ASA instructors that I know are paid about $150 a day from the school. Some, not all, get additional for the overnight classes. Some like the one week classes because they get fed well and are getting 7 days pay instead of 4.

In the US you follow US traditions. In other countries we certainly don't want to upset the apple cart and tip when it is not the custom. I signal my respect for the service by the amount of the tip. They will know I am happy or pissed off. So will the proprietor!
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Old 29-01-2007, 00:45   #30
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I know this isn't what was originaly(Sorry in advance).Shame on all you Aussies about ya Tipping fibs.Lots of us Tip so don't think it's not the custom,It's more of a case of simply being a tight arse,but where would someone in the states draw the line as to "Who gets a tip?"Do ya tip ya lawyer,a doctor,or just the lower class jobs?I would not imagine a sailing instructor in any country being a lower class job such as waiting staff is considered.Not so here,our waiter persons get paid well and still get tips.And I could not believe an instructor not being paid something for their effort unless they also were being paid $5phr so why throw money away.I would tip a waiter person,but not an instructor for a course I paid for.2cts worth.Mudnut.
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