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Old 05-05-2016, 19:13   #16
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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......
Richard, the owner of Latitude 38 in the SF Bay Area, writes that if a person can make it around the Farallones (and back!) he/she can go anywhere.
He's also the one who said he believes in owning simply boats while discussing taking showers on his 5 head/5 shower cat. The guys selling magazine ad space.
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Old 06-05-2016, 13:07   #17
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

Thanks, seasick, I appreciate the ideas.

As of today, the World ARC costs about $33,000 in fees to them. I may spend $50,000 with that and other trip expenses during the 15 month circumnavigation.

They leave from the Caribbean every January. My plan is to buy a 40-50 boat in Florida or the Caribbean about 90 days, perhaps more, ahead of the January departure.

I/we will be taking classes and chartering and learning about diesel engines, electronics, etc. in the meantime. If we're ready, based on feedback from the professionals we train with we go. If not, we wait.

I imagine the boat will be a Beneteau or something like that. It's the most popular boat in prior World ARC runs and they're plentiful in Florida and the Caribbean. My boat budget is about $125,000 plus $25,000 for equipment/repairs, so I may end up spending a total of $200,000.

It sounds like a lot, and I appreciate people here giving me straight advice, but it's the people here who have inspired me to go!!
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Old 06-05-2016, 13:35   #18
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

I'm impressed with your enthusiasm and desire dwmCA.

I think you are close on the trip budget, say, 33K for the WCC fee, and 15 months at 1K per month and 1 K for the two prior months before leaving St. Lucia.

We met couples last Fall at the World ARC breakfast and they spent from $500 to $2K per boat per month. Depends on what extras you go do and how much time you stay at marinas and hotels when not crossing/cruising.

We are in debate and looking at combing other rallies and some on our cruising to circumnavigate the first time. There are a lot of folks that leave the same times as the ACR does as the weather drives it to a point.

We will decide this Fall or next Spring on the 2018 ARC. By then our boat will have been through a complete refit done by us and a few contractors, and that brings up a personal thought I'll pass on.

90 days from purchase to beginning a 15 month journey like the ARC feels short. Granted buying a boat that recently completed said journey would make it pretty easy but you likely won't know the boat or systems as well. Just my own thoughts.

It's why we went with a good bones but needs some love and refit. Tailoring the boat and owner to each other.

Keep us all posted as you prepare...

...and then as you go.
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Old 06-05-2016, 14:42   #19
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

Thanks, Ramblingman; perhaps we'll see you on the water!

90 days to learn a boat and go does seem like a rush. I'll have think about that and be careful what I buy. It would be nice to find a Florida/Caribbean broker/sailor who could advise me as to specific boats when the time comes.

What kind of boat do you have?
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Old 06-05-2016, 15:16   #20
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by dwmCA View Post
Thanks, Ramblingman; perhaps we'll see you on the water!

90 days to learn a boat and go does seem like a rush. I'll have think about that and be careful what I buy. It would be nice to find a Florida/Caribbean broker/sailor who could advise me as to specific boats when the time comes.

What kind of boat do you have?
We own a Tylercraft T42. It's the only one that was ever completed. Hull number 2 is in Mexico somewhere unfinished.

We looked at a LOT of boats from 40' to 73' that would either be a boat for us or a larger one to crew charter after we did the ARC. In the end we dialed in to the 40' to 55' range and decided to not charter for now. Some were turnkey just equip with what we wanted and some were more projects. After climbing on some of the new boats and then on to a Valiant, my girlfriend looked at me and asked why the bigger newer boats sounded like a drum inside and bounced around so much. She loved the bright open spaces but preferred the cozy solid feel. It is subjective. I just smiled at her and knew she was going to be my wife. It's a personal choice after all. We also fell in love with a used Balance 600 that did the 2014/15 ARC but don't have 7 figures in cash handy. That said I also loved the CT54 and Amel, Valiant and a few others.

In the end we had a list;

A "couples" boat
Ability to single hand
Deep Center cockpit
Limited brightwork on deck.
Easy access to engine and systems
Limited or no core hull and decks ( only our two lazerettes have coring. )
Two heads
Two private cabins
Cutter or Ketch rig
Moderate draft

As I was working to get our prior boat in the water I looked at what I thought was a very large Westerly or some other British boat due to the odd bilge keels. It was on the hard for a number of years, I ran into who I thought was a broker, was the owner...

Three surveys, lots of quotes on work, a ton of research and we pulled the trigger.

We lucked into an absolute gem.

Good luck in your search and travels!

We are already sailing on the bay as we replace the portlights and refit the interior.
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Old 06-05-2016, 16:43   #21
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

We are just starting up an alternative world cruising rally with better T-shirts, more fun at stopovers and free beer for all participants over 65 who sign in before December 2017. Entry fee 32.99k.

Full details on our fb site!

b.
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Old 06-05-2016, 16:52   #22
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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I'm impressed with your enthusiasm and desire dwmCA.

I think you are close on the trip budget, say, 33K for the WCC fee, and 15 months at 1K per month and 1 K for the two prior months before leaving St. Lucia.

We met couples last Fall at the World ARC breakfast and they spent from $500 to $2K per boat per month. Depends on what extras you go do and how much time you stay at marinas and hotels when not crossing/cruising.
........
That's a pretty unrealistically low monthly cost. Maybe they meant to say $2k per month per person. You couldn't maintain a boat of the typical ARC World size doing a rushed circ on $500 a month. We've been in a number of anchorages in both the Atlantic and Pacific when the ARC boats come through. They are clearly not spending at $500 month a rate.
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Old 06-05-2016, 17:10   #23
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

Check in fees/check out fees, food, maintaining the boat,insurance,fuel,marina fees,communications and entertainment will eat up a lot more money than you think. Figure on something around 2500-3000 dollars per month for a couple and this assumes that you start with a well found yacht. If you are budgeting numbers much below this I think your kidding yourselves. You won't be hanging around the same area for months, which is much cheaper. Your going to be on the go and things will be breaking down. You'll be staying in marinas a lot and eating out with fellow travelers and this lifestyle is not cheap. Sounds like fun!
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Old 06-05-2016, 17:22   #24
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

Thanks Robert and Paul.

Makes sense. I'll plan closer to $2,000 and should probably have another stash for repairs underway.
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Old 06-05-2016, 18:22   #25
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

Really? 33K for the ARC. What do you get for that? Seems like a lot of coin to be told when and where you have to sail on a circumnavigation. Maybe it's worth looking at some of the alternative rally's of which a lot are free or close enough to it and putting the cash you save toward beer n stuff
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Old 06-05-2016, 18:54   #26
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

90 days to learn a boat? Maybe you are a quick study but it doesnt work that way for me. I have now owned my second boat for just about a year. I got back last week from taking her down to Grenada where she will be on the hard until next season. During the last two week stretch from St. Martin down to Grenada I had to do the following

1. Find new ball bearings for the traveller
2. Find and install a new fresh water pump when the old one started leaking and emptying out the water tank (discovered in Rodney Bay)
3. Fix the autopilot when the boat started going in circles (turned out to be bad connections for the rudder sensor and it started misbehaving off Dominica)
4. Clean out the fuel system when the motor quit half a day out of St. Maarten (turned out there was black algae in the fuel pickup line.
5. Replace a pump assembly on the aft head - done at anchor off Grenada
6. Take the stove apart and put it back together when it wouldnt stay lit (stove is a 6 month old Force 10 - a reputable brand) I think this was also in rodney bay

Sure, my boat is 22 years old but it is in decent condition. My point is that if you are sailing long distances - I started out this season in Brunswick, GA and ended on the south coast of Grenada - things are going to need fixing and you need to be able to figure it out and do it. I have to admit that this two week stretch was harder than most but weeks like that are going to happen at the end of a 1200 mile passage or even more likely at the end of a 5000 mile passage. THe Caribbean is hardly a difficult place to find parts compared to the Pacific - In fact, St. Martin is a paradise for boat parts in my book - But you arent going to learn a boat and get all the spares you need on it, etc. etc in 90 days. I would want at least a year and better two on the boat I was going to make passages on. There is WAY more than just learning how to sail it.
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Old 06-05-2016, 18:55   #27
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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Really? 33K for the ARC. What do you get for that? Seems like a lot of coin to be told when and where you have to sail on a circumnavigation. Maybe it's worth looking at some of the alternative rally's of which a lot are free or close enough to it and putting the cash you save toward beer n stuff
I ran into a world arc sailor in the San Blas and he told me it was 34,000 dollars so pretty close. There is a lot of hand holding as when we were checking in they had flown in a couple of arc guys who sat in with every member to ensure their checkin was speedy. They even had the officials working through the lunch hour to help members plus they got on the radio and asked other cruisers who were arriving to stay away from the checkin area until they were finished. I suspect this type of service goes right through to marinas and other activities. It's not the cheap seats but if you can write the checks it certainly makes the process easy. Many of the sailors were not that experienced as a couple of them hit reefs in the San Blas. I think they all have a pretty good time. The ones I talked to felt they got value for their money and liked the star status they got each port of call.
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:07   #28
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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I ran into a world arc sailor in the San Blas and he told me it was 34,000 dollars so pretty close. There is a lot of hand holding as when we were checking in they had flown in a couple of arc guys who sat in with every member to ensure their checkin was speedy. They even had the officials working through the lunch hour to help members plus they got on the radio and asked other cruisers who were arriving to stay away from the checkin area until they were finished. I suspect this type of service goes right through to marinas and other activities. It's not the cheap seats but if you can write the checks it certainly makes the process easy. Many of the sailors were not that experienced as a couple of them hit reefs in the San Blas. I think they all have a pretty good time. The ones I talked to felt they got value for their money and liked the star status they got each port of call.
Yep! We have had the misfortune of arriving in an exotic port just after the ARC fleet had departed. To sum it up, they had ravaged the stores from the simple markets available, they had demanded special treatment, they had depleted the available fuel supplies, and in general pissed off the local population to the point that they were not as friendly to yotties as usual.

From the perspective of a non-rally cruiser, they are an abomination, and we carefully try to avoid their paths. I guess we have a low tolerance for self recognized "stars", no matter how rich they are.

In short, seems to me to be a very expensive way to ruin a circumnavigation experience... your (the OP) MMV.

I apologize in advance for the kinda negative post, but it made a lasting impression upon us.

Jim
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:52   #29
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

You can learn to sail a boat pretty fast. Getting better at it requires an investment of time.

Three months to learn to sail, commission a boat for a circumnavigation would need a highly paid project manager, and no guarantee of a good time.

The deal is, it isn't like buying a motorhome or an SUV and land touring. Basically, the ocean is an unfriendly environment for humans, so you need the vessel to keep you safe (rather than getting out on safe old land.)

So, although the idea sounds fun for you, humbly, I suggest you give the project much more time. Select a boat wisely, learn to enjoy her and understand her foibles (however long it takes you). If you do not, you risk the failure of the whole enterprise, when something breaks, cannot be fixed in the rally's time frame, and they move on. There goes your 33k investment, which honestly, might be better spent on making the boat as you want it. You do not have to pay them to leave at a similar time and go along, until you decide to slow down and smell the roses.

And while you're out there, please remember you are a friendship ambassador for your country of origin, and behave accordingly.

Ann (~130,000 cruising miles since we left the States)
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Old 07-05-2016, 05:53   #30
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Re: Buy or charter in prep for 2018 World ARC circumnavigation?

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Yep! We have had the misfortune of arriving in an exotic port just after the ARC fleet had departed. To sum it up, they had ravaged the stores from the simple markets available, they had demanded special treatment, they had depleted the available fuel supplies, and in general pissed off the local population to the point that they were not as friendly to yotties as usual.

From the perspective of a non-rally cruiser, they are an abomination, and we carefully try to avoid their paths. I guess we have a low tolerance for self recognized "stars", no matter how rich they are.

In short, seems to me to be a very expensive way to ruin a circumnavigation experience... your (the OP) MMV.

I apologize in advance for the kinda negative post, but it made a lasting impression upon us.

Jim
This is the first really negative comment I have seen ( other than the cost ) of the World ARC. We have met a number of couples and crews from the ARC. They were very nice, pleasant and while some were rich ( a relative term in this world, after all making more than $33.5K US a year makes you the global 1% ) some were of more modest means like ourselves. I never once got the feeling you described.

Granted I can see where a large group descends on a location with limited resources and its major impact. I did a lot of ultracycling over the past 10 years and 20 or 30 hungry cyclists can empty the shelves of a local convenience store. A few bad apples leave a mess.

The WCC folks made a point of trying to be good ambassadors and build relationships so they are welcomed back. I am not defending anyone, just stating what I saw and our experience so far.

As to the cost, we were given a price of $24.5K reg fee (45' boat and two crew, extra crew was like $1700 per berth), that includes docking on arrival and the three nights at a dock before departing each location. Assistance getting in and out of the various ports and countries. The various parties and events, each of the crews we met were very pleased with the value provided. Some said they would go that route again, others said it gave them the confidence to go again on their own. We are thinking the later for ourselves, mostly for the benefit of my soon to be wife.

When I was given the monthly cost, that was out of pocket money, sorry for the lack of detail. Things like spares, normal maintenance and such were not there. Again couples we met spent only a few extra nights at a dock outside of those provided in the rally fee and only a two nights in 15 months in a hotel room. So the monthly costs per boat could go higher but this is what they spent on boats that were fitted out properly and in tip top shape. Yes things break but the spares and parts for those folks were on hand so they did not count that as expense but prior investment. It's what we will do too, plus of course a slush fund for anything big.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, this is a great discussion and as we prepare and make our choices and final plans I expect more such threads.
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