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Old 03-09-2017, 00:25   #1
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Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

I was wondering if someone sails his/her own 30-40' sailing boat around the world without any commercial aspects, does he/she need to climb the full certification ladder? Any authorities asking for more than an ICC/RYA coastal if e.g. crossing the pond from the Canaries to the east caribbean?

As for ICC, am I right that it can be obtained both in the country of residence OR the country of citizenship? (In my case the two differs)
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:39   #2
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

Europe has probably the most specific requirements and following is generally the boats and captains usual requirements,

Note:It pays to carry all original boat documents

1)Boat Registration
2)Insurance Certificate
3)Radio Licence
4)VAT Paid Certificate(If cruising in Europe with EU Registered boat)
5)Clearance or Exit Document
6)Other Documents(As well as the above, some countries may also want to see the ship's logbook (this can be used as a legal document) and a list of electronic or other valuable items on board.)
7)Boat Stamp(A shipís stamp is greatly appreciated in many countries where, for some strange reason, a rubber stamp has a certain authority. The stamp should show the name of the boat, registration number and your flag state.)
8)A shipís stamp is greatly appreciated in many countries where, for some strange reason, a rubber stamp has a certain authority. The stamp should show the name of the boat, registration number and your flag state.

And for Captain and crew

1) Passports-Normally valid for 6 months
2) Visa's - if required (various CREW Nationalities?)
3) Crew Lists
4) Medical Information -(Prescriptions etc)
Additional Skipper's Documents

1)A certificate of competence,or some document showing the competence of the person in charge of the boat, is now required by officials in many countries. Whilst your home country may not require such a certificate, it is worth getting something before you start cruising to avoid any nasty surprises (see this Croatia report by American cruisers who had to pay to get a Croatia Boater's License in lieu of an ICC certificate).
2)Radio Licence (operators cert)A radio operatorís licence, whether for VHF, HF or amateur radio, is required in most countries, although this is rarely checked. However, in some countries such stations can only be used legally if the operator is in possession of a reciprocal licence issued by the country concerned. In most places this is a simple formality and costs a small fee. In a few countries there are strict restrictions on the use of any radio equipment while in port, while in others, such as Thailand and New Zealand, the use of portable marine VHF radios on land is forbidden.

Cheers Steve(MIIMS-Lloyd's Maritime)
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:17   #3
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

Hi Steve, thanks for the comprehensive list, here the "certificate of competence" is in question. Some authorities published a list, what they accept but I don't recall any differentiation between offshore and coastal cruising (e.g "ICC countries" AFAIK ask for the same day skipper level ICC from someone just arriving from an Atlantic crossing and someone sailed over from the neighbouring bay).
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:42   #4
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

Hello,
ICC/Day Skipper is also accepted by most bareboat charters in Europe, and they must comply with local regulations (in addition to insurance policies).
Whether you are coming from an Atlantic crossing or a neighbouring marina is irrelevant to local authorities.

Cheers
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:00   #5
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

Obviously there is a huge difference between Coastal /off shore/ and then Ocean Master qualifications (in reality) but thankfully as above postings most Authorities dont check (or need to) as long as you have a piece of "Competency" Document to show, basically any thing will do,

I know when i sailed out of NZ in the late 70's, there was strict compliance to having an off-shore ticket(even asked to me prove my Sextant competency) prior to departure-Sigh! how things have changed!!

Cheers Steve
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:25   #6
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

Thank you for both! Eventually I do intend to climb the cert. ladder, but I want to buy my own boat and spending precious holiday time in courses would rob time from my own boat. Also, if it's not a legal issue to do (shorter) passages at a lower certification level (I'll have coastal skipper soon), I'd prefer to do so.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:39   #7
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

U.S. citizens must have at least a "6 pac" license to legally receive payment from other people as passengers on a boat .
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:57   #8
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

I have never carried insurance on any boat I have had (which is now my fourth keel boat) I don't hold any ticket other than a merchant navy able seaman certificate, GMDSS ham radio, I have never had a radio license for any boat, never had a vat certificate for any boat, I have even entered countries with completely no papers for the boat. French coast guard told me with no papers I could have stolen the boat, I pointed out to them, that if I was to steal a boat, it wouldn't be the one I was on. Bermuda customs told me that I should get the papers for the boat, as I could find problems in future if I didn't . UK coast guard asked me if I had a insurance, papers for the boat, a vat receipt, a ticket for myself, I said no to all, they then said "got any money" I said nope. They then said " we will be back in this harbour in three days, don't be here"

What are they going to do, confiscate your boat, and have to tell there boss that they are now paying harbour fees on a boat, that there may be legal challenges over.
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Old 03-09-2017, 13:47   #9
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

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Originally Posted by navy davy View Post
U.S. citizens must have at least a "6 pac" license to legally receive payment from other people as passengers on a boat .
Haven't planned any commercial activity yet, that'd give me a lot of headache atm (tax man and local permits for half a dozen countries).

Atlantical<-
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Old 03-09-2017, 15:28   #10
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

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Originally Posted by atlantical View Post
I have never carried insurance on any boat I have had (which is now my fourth keel boat) I don't hold any ticket other than a merchant navy able seaman certificate, GMDSS ham radio, I have never had a radio license for any boat, never had a vat certificate for any boat, I have even entered countries with completely no papers for the boat. French coast guard told me with no papers I could have stolen the boat, I pointed out to them, that if I was to steal a boat, it wouldn't be the one I was on. Bermuda customs told me that I should get the papers for the boat, as I could find problems in future if I didn't . UK coast guard asked me if I had a insurance, papers for the boat, a vat receipt, a ticket for myself, I said no to all, they then said "got any money" I said nope. They then said " we will be back in this harbour in three days, don't be here"

What are they going to do, confiscate your boat, and have to tell there boss that they are now paying harbour fees on a boat, that there may be legal challenges over.
Atlantical, you have a breath of fresh air. I built and sailed yachts all over the Irish sea. Then pushed on to Greece, no pieces of paper! Yes I had insurance, and ownership doccs. But no sailing qualifications apart from Yachtmaster night school and practical. The RYA do not keep records or did not when I did my tests, so I cannot ask for a copy. I sailed out to Greece and then back. No one questioned my competence. I suppose in the event of an accident it may be a different story. Go for it, the local police/customs want a quiet time (I think)
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Old 03-09-2017, 16:54   #11
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

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Originally Posted by annualLeave View Post
Hello,
ICC/Day Skipper is also accepted by most bareboat charters in Europe, and they must comply with local regulations (in addition to insurance policies).
Whether you are coming from an Atlantic crossing or a neighbouring marina is irrelevant to local authorities.

Cheers
We bareboat chartered in The Med, and Aus, with only our state "boat license", which is just a written test, and a self written list of our experience and a "confident air".
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Old 03-09-2017, 16:58   #12
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

I heard from a sailing instructor, (who works in Greece) that the Greeks could be sticky on paperwork, but he did say, they just look at it, and never check any of it. The biggest problem I ever had, was in 2005. I sailed into Bermuda on a boat I bought in the USA an Irwin Citation 35, and two crew, who got off as soon as we arrived (it was December) and said they were flying home. At that time they would only give a three week visa, and I said I wasn't leaving Bermuda until April, they went mad, I said to them, "my engine is broken" their attitude was we don't care, get out of this country. I said "what you going to do, tow me into the Atlantic" this customs officer said "thats not my decision, other people will make that decision" I had no option but to leave the boat with a broker, and fly home. I lost a lot on that boat. But that was all because I told them I wasn't taking the boat back out to sea. It would have been suicide, we were lucky to get there. They were not so bad last time I was there, and you now get thee months.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:14   #13
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Re: Anything more than a coastal skipper+icc+radio needed?

How charmingly typical of an insurer: don't read the actual short practical question but accurately cite all the exclusions!

The short practical answer as far as I am concerned is that in Northern Europe and the Med nobody has ever asked me for my RYA and ICC certificates when using my own boat. That is over nearer 40 than 30 years of sailing.

Chartering you will need to prove competence and the ICC is best as it is recognised by the IMO which is a UN agency. Thus universal.

The reasons for that practical state of affairs may, ironically, well lie in insurance. With your own boat you will nearly always be asked for proof of insurance. If you charter then the insurance is from the company.

Does having a qualification such as an ICC have any bearing on risk? Personally, I would have thought that a sensible person would think getting a degree of qualification worthwhile. However, when Lloyds write your policy do they give you a discount for having obtained such as an ICC? No!
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