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Old 12-03-2016, 12:22   #31
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
. . . just telling them they can't buy a boat for the next X yrs and all that jazz will only stop them from posting, not from doing what they want to do.
Right again, Lizzy. But if they are as gung ho as they seem to be, they will be sailing/racing every weekend from now to the end of the sailing season in Vancouver. And when the season is over, they will be chartering 30 foot boats in warmer places. So the X number of years could be next year. But I and several others are trying to tell them that it would be foolish and costly to buy any boat this year. If they jump into buying a boat now, and go out and have a horrible or horrifying experience due to their lack of experience--which is not far-fetched--what will that do for the rest of their sailing lives? And where does that leave their big un-refitted boat? They will have only the receipts from their insurance and dockage payments to show for it until they can unload it.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:33   #32
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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If they jump into buying a boat now, and go out and have a horrible or horrifying experience due to their lack of experience--which is not far-fetched--what will that do for the rest of their sailing lives?
That's how I learned Never chartered a day in my life. Granted, I grew up on boats and my first boat was a Sailhorse, so not exactly the same, but according to some of the posts here I should sell my boat, move back on land and start over too, just to do it "right".

Here in the Netherlands, lots of people buy their first boat without having any experience whatsoever. They find a marina near a smaller sailing water and take it from there.

Again -- most of the advise given here is good advise. But when people want to do something their way, I just think it's better to help them do that as best as possible and not just shut them down. Won't stop them doing what they want, but it will stop them asking help.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:16   #33
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pirate Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

Sounds you have done the equivalent of the RYA Theory..
As others have said.. let the owner do it and watch what he does..
To be honest if I was in your shoes I'd have splashed out for a couple of hours practical at least.. that way at least you'd have some idea of what you are watching and hopefully learning without breathing over his shoulder all the time..
If its a deal after the Survey/Trials try and work a couple of days sailing with the owner into it..
Best of luck.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:23   #34
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

Some people just buy a boat and then learn to sail it in steps that are suitable for them. That's ok, and maybe the best solution for these people. On the other hand someone might buy a boat that is is very bad shape and then sail it out to the ocean and into a storm, without any skills. That's not the way to go.

I think it is fair to warn people that there are some serious danger elements involved, and that they should proceed in a way where those risks never (never!) materialize. The difficult part is to tell from a distance what path would suit each individual. Those individuals and their friends are probably the best experts to propose answers to this question.

If someone has the tendency to break all his new gadgets, they definitely should have a new more careful approach to sailing. If they never break their toys, and they think they understand the sailing related risks, then they are likely to continue their old safe approach also with the boats.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:41   #35
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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Sounds you have done the equivalent of the RYA Theory..
As others have said.. let the owner do it and watch what he does..
^^^^^^^^^^^

Paul's #16 was quite good, too.

But, but, but

You don't need to know how to sail when you go on a sea trial. The PO should do everything and show you that everything works. And how it works.

If the surveyor is along for the ride, all the better.

Take notes, be prepared by making checklists before you go, and take pictures. I've also found taking pictures and then, right then, writing down what the pictures are on a piece of paper and taking a picture of THAT to be very helpful. Like vacation pictures with road and town signs.

There are also books along the lines of "how to survey a used boat" and "how to buy a used boat."
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:56   #36
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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...You don't need to know how to sail when you go on a sea trial...
Then it isn't a sea trial--it is a boat ride.
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Old 12-03-2016, 14:13   #37
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pirate Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

[QUOTE=Stu Jackson;2070479]^^^^^^^^^^^

Paul's #16 was quite good, too.

But, but, but

You don't need to know how to sail when you go on a sea trial. The PO should do everything and show you that everything works. And how it works.
QUOTE]

But....
I know you don't.. and you also do not have to know how to do a Survey.. that's why they're hiring a surveyor..
Some of us are more concerned with advising him how to learn to sail minus the crash..
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Old 12-03-2016, 17:32   #38
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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And if it's the latter, then buy a dinghy. There's really nothing better than learning how to sail in a small boat, which tells you almost immediately when you're doing something wrong
I couldn't agree more. There's nothing like getting wet when you screw up to teach you the fundamentals. Small boats also quickly tell you when you're doing something right.
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Old 12-03-2016, 17:56   #39
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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But....
I know you don't.. and you also do not have to know how to do a Survey.. that's why they're hiring a surveyor..
Some of us are more concerned with advising him how to learn to sail minus the crash..
I went back and reread the OP. Of course, you're right and I don't disagree. But the way I originally read it was he was kinda in a hurry and was ready to soon do a trial on this boat. Agreeing with many that he ain't gonna learn sailing very soon, that's why I wrote what I did. I am sure there are tons of folks who have bought boats after sea trialing them with a surveyor, who had no clue. Not that it makes any sense, but...

Of course, if he has the time, then yes, the advice given here on the many different ways of learning to sail would certainly help.

I particularly liked the posts who noted that if he couldn't afford a lesson or two he might have issues with keeping up with the boat once he gets it, but we're here to discuss sailing, not his pocketbook.
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Old 12-03-2016, 18:10   #40
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
that's why they're hiring a surveyor..
I hope they are
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Old 12-03-2016, 18:48   #41
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pirate Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

Never know gal.. now they've read Stu's post they may buy the book.. its cheaper..
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Old 12-03-2016, 19:44   #42
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

There was much discussion created by Mike and Michelle's earlier post: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast? and I think it helps to understand their point of view, so one might want to use it for context when replying to this question.
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Old 12-03-2016, 19:50   #43
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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Never know gal.. now they've read Stu's post they may buy the book.. its cheaper..

Ach, I missed that one!

Why didn't I mention...???

Sailing For Dummies

Actually a very good read. And used? CHEAP!


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Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull View Post
There was much discussion created by Mike and Michelle's earlier post: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast? and I think it helps to understand their point of view, so one might want to use it for context when replying to this question.
Superb memory, thanks for linking it.
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Old 13-03-2016, 00:22   #44
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

First time post here. Great information provided so far on this forum.

We are looking to purchase a catamaran and are preparing for all these procedures. I have a question: should you do a haul out before or after your sea trial, or does it matter as long as you do it? Thanks much!
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Old 13-03-2016, 04:00   #45
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Re: A cheap crash course in sailing so we know what we're doing for the sea trial

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First time post here. Great information provided so far on this forum.

We are looking to purchase a catamaran and are preparing for all these procedures. I have a question: should you do a haul out before or after your sea trial, or does it matter as long as you do it? Thanks much!
I think it doesn't matter too much. I'm thinking about the costs here. Hauling the boat out (or to the water if it is on the dry) may be costly. If you hire a good surveyor (I recommend), that costs too. You don't want to do these with many candidate boats.

So, you do these two things only when you have already almost decided to buy that boat. Then it makes sense to optimise the order and timing so that you can have your surveyor present all the time, and so that you can get all the possible info from the previous owners too.

If the boat is on the water, you might do the sea trial (or just another casual sail) first if there is a chance that you will be disappointed and want to cancel the deal. That will save the cost of the haul out (maybe surveyor costs too if he was not present yet).
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