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Old 09-08-2011, 09:46   #31
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Cat Man Do or anyone (you are building one so I thought you might know) You guys bring up another question. Why don't the few motor cats out there, even larger ones like the HX2 MCAT 88' Bradley CVAY - The Mcat 88 Bradley (best pics and specs together I could find) have a longer range? Sunreef's power cats can cross oceans but I've heard not so good things about their quality. I would fall deeply in love with that MCAT if only it could be a passage maker.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:43   #32
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexam View Post
Cat Man Do or anyone (you are building one so I thought you might know) You guys bring up another question. Why don't the few motor cats out there, even larger ones like the HX2 MCAT 88' Bradley CVAY - The Mcat 88 Bradley (best pics and specs together I could find) have a longer range? Sunreef's power cats can cross oceans but I've heard not so good things about their quality. I would fall deeply in love with that MCAT if only it could be a passage maker.
Most people get power boats to go fast or at least faster, hence power cats have bigger engines. Bigger engines consume more fuel and add weight for both fuel and the engines. Cats, even power cats, don't handle weight as well as monohulls. You simply can't put that much fuel on a cat, except for the very large of course. Even then, it is not as good as a monohull. The Endeavour power cat 44s for instance have 500 gallon fuel tanks. I'm told by some people they can cruise at 8 knots on 3-4 gallons per hour. To put ocean crossing range on that boat (say 3000 miles) you would have to add over 6000 lbs of fuel. One not only has to manage the extra displacement you also need the extra tankage for 1000 more gallons of fuel and cat hulls don't have that much volume. My sailcat version uses only .7 GPH at 6 knots on one engine or a theoretical range of 942 nm on one engine. If I had my engines and the power cat's fuel tanks I could easily cross an ocean under power, at least in theory.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:26   #33
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Captain Bill,

Yeah, and I live 25 miles north of the factory.

I have looked at the 44 both sail and power, they seem like one of the best options out there, especially since like you are saying there are used ones out there that are very reasonable.

Curious, I like the idea of the sailing version like you have better than the trawler version, since both have about the same layout, it has more economical drive and the sails, and both have the 3 foot draft.

My question is: can you allow your sailing version to dry out with the tide without damage? I know the power version can.

The only endeavor I've seen was the 48 at the boat show">Miami boat show some time back. That is a very nice boat.

Sorry, I am all over the place as I really just want to make the right decision when we get to that point. This is how far out there I am. I am considering something like this:

2011 Tajoma Ferry Cat 550 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I believe that is the price less engines. They build to suit. Have them put up a few partitions on the main deck, minus the ferry seating, you have an amazing boat build to stand up to hard use.

Even with some nice engines and drives you end up with a shallow draft (3 feet) boat with a lot of room at a low price. The bridgedeck clearance on that thing is amazing. The interior dimensions are huge, the upper deck is huge. Ugly and weird, but it would fit nice on my dock out back, and would be no uglier than my current boat. Is this insane?

Wonder what the fuel burn is? Can't be worse than a lot of yachts out there.
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Old 09-08-2011, 15:25   #34
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

I've never dried mine out, but the builder says it's no problem if there is no wave action. He did say if the water tank and fuel tank's were full it might rock back on the rudders, but he said that was no problem if there were no side loads, so basically on a gently sloping beach in calm water and the bow or stern aligned with the slope of the beach it's ok. The newer versions of the sailing cat without sail drives is advertised at 3 foot of draft, but the older versions are closer to 4 feet. I plan at 4 feet with my boat. The boat is narrow enough that one gets a bit of heel when going to windward and the stern also squats quite a bit at high speeds. My guess is that at times I'm drawing 4.5-5 on the lee hull. I don't press my luck in shallow water at high speed. Don't get me wrong, the heel is not enough that you need to brace your self or your drinks slide off the table, but it is noticeable. When sitting at the dock my lowest step on the stern is about 8 inches above the water line. At 8 knots or more that step is awash.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:13   #35
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Bill, thanks for the info.

You happy with the boat? How does she sail? You have any idea what kind of gas mileage you getting under power? How fast does she go under power? What power cruise speed do you use? Which engines does your have? Owner info always trumps the sales guy. Thanks in advance.

I need to see one in person, but of all the boats (not custom-made) they make here yours seems to be one of the most practical, especially for use in FL/Bahamas.
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:50   #36
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexam View Post
Cat Man Do or anyone (you are building one so I thought you might know) You guys bring up another question. Why don't the few motor cats out there, even larger ones like the HX2 MCAT 88' Bradley CVAY - The Mcat 88 Bradley (best pics and specs together I could find) have a longer range? Sunreef's power cats can cross oceans but I've heard not so good things about their quality. I would fall deeply in love with that MCAT if only it could be a passage maker.
Heres better details
Luxury Catamaran Yacht: MCAT 88 - BRADLEY

Once again, custom build is the go
If you can afford the Mcat, you can afford a custom build,
If you can afford custom build, you can afford

Main Engines: 2 x 8LXB marine Gardners 200 hp each
Speed: 10.8 knots
Tankage:Fuel: 29,500 ltrs total
Range: 10,000 nautical miles consumption 36 ltrs ph @ 10 knots
includes generator
Sher Khan

Or if you want a smaller production boat that has crossed from Africa to the Carribean on its own bottom perhaps Leopard 37 Power Cats Now Crossing Oceans | OceanLines
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Old 09-08-2011, 16:59   #37
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I'm told by some people they can cruise at 8 knots on 3-4 gallons per hour.
13 litres an hour?
That seems a lot
The 50 ft 40 tonne trawler in my sig gets
Quote:
" 15 Sep. 2002: After cruising the boat for twelve months we are consistently getting 7 - 8 litres per hour at 7 knots (1100 RPM) and we are ecstatic!"
The cat that got me thinking, was consistently using 10 litres at 10 knots with 56hpx2

Schionning Designs -
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Old 09-08-2011, 17:43   #38
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Heres better details
Luxury Catamaran Yacht: MCAT 88 - BRADLEY

Once again, custom build is the go
If you can afford the Mcat, you can afford a custom build,
If you can afford custom build, you can afford

Main Engines: 2 x 8LXB marine Gardners 200 hp each
Speed: 10.8 knots
Tankage:Fuel: 29,500 ltrs total
Range: 10,000 nautical miles consumption 36 ltrs ph @ 10 knots
includes generator
Sher Khan

Or if you want a smaller production boat that has crossed from Africa to the Carribean on its own bottom perhaps Leopard 37 Power Cats Now Crossing Oceans | OceanLines

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thanks
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Old 09-08-2011, 17:55   #39
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Or stick with a mono

POWERSAIL NEW ZEALAND - Innovation, Technology and Passion
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Old 09-08-2011, 20:33   #40
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

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Originally Posted by dc9loser View Post
Bill, thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc9loser View Post

You happy with the boat? How does she sail? You have any idea what kind of gas mileage you getting under power? How fast does she go under power? What power cruise speed do you use? Which engines does your have? Owner info always trumps the sales guy. Thanks in advance.

I need to see one in person, but of all the boats (not custom-made) they make here yours seems to be one of the most practical, especially for use in FL/Bahamas.


I'll try to answer these questions one at a time.

Generally I'm happy with the boat. I've had a few issues that I've enumerated in other posts, which you can look up under my name. Overall though I don't think she's had as many issues as most boats. The saildrives are a bit problematic and as you might have noticed Endeavour does not use them in the current incarnation.

She sails a lot better than she looks like she would. I was pleasantly surprised how well she actually sails. She is not a speed demon by cat standards but is still faster than most cruising monohulls. In an impromptu race against a Broadblue 41.5 in 20 knots and 5 foot+ seas on a broad reach I was able to outrun them on stock sails. They began to pull ahead when they put out a chute, but I passed them again when they decided the chute was not a good idea. The whole time I was holding 8.5 to 9 knots. She does well in light winds as well as long as they're not from nearly directly astern. I have done 1.5 knots to windward in 2.5 knots of apparent wind. I was even able to tack the boat in these conditions without doing anything but turning the wheel. I have to admit that it took two tries. The first time I was too aggressive with the rudders and she stalled. The boat will point to about 50 degrees to the true wind without any speed loss. It will point another 10 degrees but you'll be giving up a lot of speed. I recently acquired a chute and only tested it on a day when it was blowing 3-5. I was getting 2-3 out of the boat. This was done with a temporary rig. I have high hopes for better down wind performance once I have it rigged properly. While I don't expect to win many races against cats, I've yet to loose one to a monohull, though to be honest they were cruisers, not racers. I was once asked to take some pictures of my buddy's 40' cutter on a day when it was blowing 6-8. He should have understood his fate when I began sailing in circles around his boat taking the pictures. Note I said sailing, not motoring. In any case after the photo session he went off to windward and I went off on a beam reach. When we were about a mile apart he called me on the radio and started giving me some gruff about cats not pointing. From nearly a mile behind I quickly caught him and took a nice photo of his bow as I out pointed and out sped him. I was getting between 4 and 5 knots in the 6-8. He never did tell me how that crow tasted. Top speed sailing seems to be about 10.5 knots. She might be able to go faster, but rudder control starts getting a bit iffy at this speed at which time I throw in a reef and slow to about 9.7. I'm not sure if the rudders are not big enough or I'm getting entrained air that is dropping rudder efficiency. In any case she tells you when it's time to reef.

Now for power. I have 40 HP yanmar 3jh3ce's and at a cruise RPM of 2950 I burn .7 gph on each of them. I can cruise at 7 knots on two engines or 6 knots on one. This is a little slower than book values, which I attribute to my Autostream feathering props. The feathering props have a flat blade profile which is less efficient than one with a twist. Book values say she should be about a knot faster. At full throttle she does about 8.5 knots. I bought the boat used and the previous owner had replaced the standard folding props with the Autostreams. I'm not sure they're worth the speed penalty or the extra maintenance. Changing the zincs becomes a real PITA as the props must be removed to change the saildrive zincs. Fortunately we've not had problems that have required a lot of zinc replacement.

I should note that the only time we've had any serious bridgedeck slap is when motoring into seas between two and four feet. Below two they go right under and above 4 you just ride over. When sailing you can't get directly into the waves enough to create a problem. One other thing to keep in mind is that she’s a narrow cat and does not have as stable a ride as a wider cat. If the sails are not up she can roll quite a bit. That 60 foot mast acts like a big pendulum, however if you put up the main, even if It’s only to the second reef she’ll steady right up. If there’s any significant sea running I keep some sail up just to steady her. Under some conditions you will even get a little extra speed motoring to windward with the sails up. I’ve noted as much as a knot of extra speed when pointing too close to the wind to sail, but far enough off to keep the sails inflated.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:18   #41
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Thanks Bill, sounds like a pretty good boat overall.
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Old 21-08-2011, 22:23   #42
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

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Originally Posted by Lexam View Post
Sunreef's power cats can cross oceans but I've heard not so good things about their quality.
Tell me more? what quality issues have you heard about, on the web somewhere? What in particular?
Thanks, Tim
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Old 21-08-2011, 22:57   #43
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

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Originally Posted by timandchanel View Post
Tell me more? what quality issues have you heard about, on the web somewhere? What in particular?
Thanks, Tim
Hey Tim this is where I read that they were not of high quality. Sunreef 70' opinions? - YachtForums.Com This being another forum I take it with a grain of salt. I wish I could find more discussions on them, and get a well balanced opinion. It seems a bit one sided and based off one boat from that thread.
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Old 21-08-2011, 23:14   #44
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

Well those seem like fair comments in general on that boat, thanks again for the fast reply!!
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Old 21-08-2011, 23:35   #45
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Re: Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ?

This is my version,
A Trimaran with 2 X 90 hp outboards. A draft of 18 inches.
It is 40 ft long and 16ft wide and will sail downwind only. Cruising speed under motor 7-8 knots at 3 litres of gasoline a nautical mile. A maximum speed of 18 knots.
I carry 1000litres of fuel.
Currently in TI waiting for a weather window for Merauke Irian Jaya.
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