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07-09-2009, 14:40
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
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Two Stroke / Four Stroke Outboards
With fuel/oil injection the newer two strokes are much better than they used to be.
I have spoken with a number of boat owners who say the new generation two strokes have better fuel economy and more "power" than four strokes.
Any real life support for either. Rather than hearsay
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07-09-2009, 14:44
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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Thats not exactly true. The new two-strokes are just a lot less worse than they used to be when it comes to efficiency and emissions.
Modern four-strokes are more efficient and cleaner burning. The downside to them is their greater weight and cost.
More power is a relative term. A unit of horsepower is the same thing regardless of the source.
Which are better is a matter of the application and personal preference.
If weight is a very high priority to you such as having to lug one on to a dink, then get a two-stroke. The new ones are pretty good engines now...less stinky and more efficient than they used to be.
__________________
David
Life begins where land ends.
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07-09-2009, 16:20
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat - Carib, Chesapeake
Boat: 58 Taswell AS
Posts: 1,139
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Can't buy a 2-stroke in the US anymore thanks to the Green Weenies.
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07-09-2009, 16:45
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Stuart, FL & Bahamas Cruising
Boat: Lagoon 37
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speciald@ocens.
Can't buy a 2-stroke in the US anymore thanks to the Green Weenies.
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You can still get them in the Bahamas and thier prices are better than in the states for out boards
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07-09-2009, 17:05
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,437
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Right or wrong, forbidden (to sell) in the EC.
b.
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07-09-2009, 22:51
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#6
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,956
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It's true, the new 2-strokes are cleaner and more efficient than 4-strokes... but they are only available at 40hp and up last time I checked. They are also approved in the US and EU because engines must meet emission standards, regardless of 2/4 stroke technology.
ciao!
Nick.
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08-09-2009, 00:44
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
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Has anyone got some real experience with these new two stroke motors rather than the crap that manufacturers write or they pay journo's to write.
Here in Australia you can still buy two stokes and they are the latest technology from Mercury, Evinrude, Yamaha etc.(up to 300hp)
So far we haven't been sucked in totally by the Greens and their ********.
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08-09-2009, 14:35
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
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i am more interested in fuel economy of the new two strokes. Any experience out there.
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08-09-2009, 14:54
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#10
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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maybe not lighter
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
Too many people think 2-strokes are out because of emissions but the e-tec engine proves this is bull. 2-stroke provides more acceleration, is lighter, smaller and can be cleaner/greener than 4-stroke.
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The 25hp E-Tec weighs in at 156 lbs. Compare that with a Yamaha 2-stroke 25hp, which weighs only 105 lbs. The short-shaft Honda 4-stroke 25hp weighs 155 lbs, so it's actually lighter than the E-Tec.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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08-09-2009, 15:29
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,514
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Etecs are BIG trouble unless you are lucky and get a good one. I've been involved with the installation of many. a pretty good percentage of them melt their pistons in the first month of service. A good 2 stroke is hard to beat. The 4 strokes are smooth though and should be great engines if you can afford the weight. If I understand it right, the ETEC tries to use a black box to finely control emissions by metering oil in with the fuel, one of two things seems to happen, the Box thinks there's too much emission and cuts the oil back frying the powerhead, or loads it up with oil and it sucks the 2 stroke expensive oil like going out of style creating more pollution then a typicla 2 stroke. Evinrude is pretty good at fixing them though. An ETEC would be the very last engine on my list...
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08-09-2009, 15:40
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#12
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
The 25hp E-Tec weighs in at 156 lbs. Compare that with a Yamaha 2-stroke 25hp, which weighs only 105 lbs. The short-shaft Honda 4-stroke 25hp weighs 155 lbs, so it's actually lighter than the E-Tec.
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Yes, I saw that too, but look at the displacement, the e-tec is a much larger engine. I was surprised to find a 25hp e-tec as the last time I checked it started at 40hp. They have a problem to build small e-tec engines but like always, time will improve things as they develop it further. May be a 40 hp e-tec is lighter than a 4-stroke?
My Yamaha Enduro 25hp weighs 125 lbs and that's too much to carry around without loosing control... we always use a halyard.
ciao!
Nick.
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08-09-2009, 16:14
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#13
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
My Yamaha Enduro 25hp weighs 125 lbs and that's too much to carry around without loosing control... we always use a halyard.
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Enduro. Is that the one where you use a girl button to get it started?
Still, 25hp seems like an awful light powerplant for a 64 Sundeer.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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08-09-2009, 17:52
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#14
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
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I've seen the advertisement where they claim the e tec has lower emissions. They wave a wand in the air behind the running engine. Like airborne emissions are the only emissions. What happens to that oil that is injected? A large percentage still ends up in the water. Run a two stroke in a barrel and do the same with a four stroke. The water will tell the story. I'm surprised to hear so many against the environmental movement. Like an ostrich sticking his head in the sand, What pollution problem? I'm totally happy with my 3 hp four stroke. 3 star emission compliant, 35 lbs. Great fuel economy. I don't feel the need to go 20 kts in my dinghy or sailboat. Full time liveaboard cruiser 3 yrs no plans on changing lifestyle.
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08-09-2009, 18:36
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#15
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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a few thoughts from an actual environmentalits
Quote:
Originally Posted by forsailbyowner
I've seen the advertisement where they claim the e tec has lower emissions. They wave a wand in the air behind the running engine. Like airborne emissions are the only emissions. What happens to that oil that is injected? A large percentage still ends up in the water. Run a two stroke in a barrel and do the same with a four stroke. The water will tell the story. I'm surprised to hear so many against the environmental movement. Like an ostrich sticking his head in the sand, What pollution problem? I'm totally happy with my 3 hp four stroke. 3 star emission compliant, 35 lbs. Great fuel economy. I don't feel the need to go 20 kts in my dinghy or sailboat. Full time liveaboard cruiser 3 yrs no plans on changing lifestyle.
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I'm neither an engineer or a scientist, but I do teach Environmental Studies at the university level. I have no interest for or against Evinrude motors, nor do I own one.
The bottom line with E-Tec technology is that they consume less gas than comparable engines, even 4-strokes. The less gas you burn, the less carbon you emit. It's that simple.
As regards oil in the water, here in California, where two-strokes were banned from places such as Lake Tahoe, the E-Tec engines are now allowed. Indeed, the boats from the regional agency that monitors compliance with outboard engine restrictions are now equipped with E-Tec outboards. For me, that constitutes a fairly strong endorsement, although I would still argue that kayaks present a greener alternative to anything with an E-Tec engine.
As far as knee-jerk reactions against the environmental movement are concerned, I have no comment other than to suggest, ahem, that you consider the source.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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