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Old 23-01-2011, 07:08   #16
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If you are actually going to live on a boat as a permanent lifestyle, I concur that you should get the biggest boat you can handle and then some. For the life of me, I cannot understand how people can live comfortably on a 30 ft sailboat. And big does not necessarily mean expensive if you're not fetishistic about brightwork and flying just the right flag in just the right place. There are obvious trade offs, a boat like mine cannot take a slip in a marina for the night, has to anchor out away from other boats. burns a lot of fuel, and is a bitch to handle in a tight spot, but there are also lots of benefits. Most importantly, it's comfortable to live on.
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Old 23-01-2011, 07:32   #17
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Also does anyone have any input on the Bayliner 4788 pilothouse motoryacht?
I have always liked the interior layout of those. The lack of side decks might be a deal breaker for some. They were not your typical Bayslammer; and perhaps not as prone to the poor workmanship that plagued the majority of that brand name.

Don't rule that model out just because it's a Bayliner.

As you shop, remember that ownership costs go up exponentially with the length. My 40' Marine Trader probably uses twice the bottom paint than Chuck's 34'er does. It's not just longer, but deeper and wider. At an average of $2/ft per night, a month of 50' slips will cost an additional $600 compared to a month of 40' slips. Bigger boat means more than just more room below; it means bigger props, shafts, bigger engines, bigger yard bills.

I think it was skipper Bob who said: "Don't buy the biggest boat you can afford; buy the smallest boat you can live with."
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Old 23-01-2011, 08:53   #18
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You might want to go to one of Passagemaker Magazine's Trawler Fests to see and learn about Trawlers. There is one next weekend (28 January) in Fort Lauderdale and others scheduled around the country through the year including one in Baltimore in the Fall. The website lists boats that will be present for sale and the educational activities. I'm also looking to go to a trawler if and when my sailboat sells. My interest is in a "fast" trawler with two engines and stabilizers for use in the Caribbean where we now live.
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Old 23-01-2011, 22:29   #19
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On the other hand, the advantage of twin engines is if and when one goes down, you are not sitting dead in the water.

I saw one idea. It was a trawler with a primary main engine whose shaft extended out the center of the keel. Along side it was a smaller shaft and feathering propeller obviously attached to a smaller engine which could get it back to the dock...or perhaps for trolling at a slow speed as well?

I am seeing more and more trawlers with stabilizers in the boat yards.


Doubling the length of a boat roughly cubes it weight and price.
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Old 23-01-2011, 23:38   #20
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On the other hand, the advantage of twin engines is if and when one goes down, you are not sitting dead in the water.
That advantage comes at a very high price. One needs to acquire an additional engine, shaft, propeller, etc. for many thousands of $$ extra (if acquired new). And then there is twice the chance something breaks down as well as twice the maintenance of same, as well as a much more crowded engine room, unless the boat is large. And then most dual engine/shaft/propeller boats have little/no protection of the shaft and propeller. Having run aground several times, I appreciate a keel-protected propeller.
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Old 24-01-2011, 08:39   #21
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...
I saw one idea. It was a trawler with a primary main engine whose shaft extended out the center of the keel. Along side it was a smaller shaft and feathering propeller obviously attached to a smaller engine which could get it back to the dock...or perhaps for trolling at a slow speed as well?
...
This is the standard configuration for Nordhavns up into the 60 footers at least (I know the 62 is that way). Somewhere around the 70'-80' range they change to twin engines.

The small engine is often referred to a Wing Engine or Get Home Engine.

I don't know if they do this on the Nordhavns, but in some installations the wing engine is configured to also be a backup generator and/or backup hydraulics pump and/or high volume bilge pump.

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Old 24-01-2011, 08:45   #22
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That advantage comes at a very high price. One needs to acquire an additional engine, shaft, propeller, etc. for many thousands of $$ extra (if acquired new). And then there is twice the chance something breaks down as well as twice the maintenance of same, as well as a much more crowded engine room, unless the boat is large. And then most dual engine/shaft/propeller boats have little/no protection of the shaft and propeller. Having run aground several times, I appreciate a keel-protected propeller.
It comes down to personal preference. All you (and others say) is important for people to hear to help them make good decisions.

For me, I intellectually understand the reasons for a single engine. And you have done a good job of hitting the main points in a very short post. But emotionally, I think I would feel safer with twins. So, it comes down to my tolerances and weaknesses. BUT, I try to keep an open mind and may well find myself in a single when it comes time to purchase.

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Old 26-01-2011, 09:01   #23
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With twins, they are also smaller engines for the same total horsepower. Two 150's instead of a 300 for example. Yes, you get economies of scale with the single 300 but its not like two engines are going to cost double what a single would cost. My guess is the difference will probably be closer to 50% more. For some, 50% more for a power plant might be worth the extra security.

There is no right or wrong answer here. It depends on what the owner wants.
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Old 26-01-2011, 09:15   #24
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Steve Dashew has some interesting thoughts on the single engine/double engine question at dashewoffshore.com.
The prop protection aspect of the decision was one I hadn't thought about.

Jim
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Old 14-02-2011, 09:01   #25
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If you will be going up and down the ICW every year, get a boat that is easy to maneuver around docks. There is nothing more stressful than trying to manhandle a cranky, single-screw trawler into a tightly constricted marina slip. I suggest twin screws just for this feature alone. And I would even have a bow-thruster plus twin screws, just to eliminate "white knuckle" docking. Also try get a boat with good side decks -- it makes docking so much easier if you have fast, secure access to all parts of the boat as you come into a slip or a dock.

I had a 35-footer that was fine for cruises up to about a month, but for living aboard for several months I think I would want a boat at least 40-feet long. The prior commenters are correct about Selenes and Nordhavns -- they are overkill for ICW cruising. Mainship, Grand Banks (if you love to varnish), Sabreline, Navigator, Ocean Alexander, Island Pilot, and a number of Asian imports are all lines with models that could work well for you.
Kindly allow me to suggest a Grand Banks. After more than 20+ years of GB cruising around the Asian waters, we have found the GB both safe, reliable and comfortable. While beauty might not be universal, quality is. A GB is a safe place in most situations for the benefit of yourself and your family. It can never be to good out there! If you treasure a proper resale value when you are done, the GB provides that as well and it is happily free of the otherwise industry tendencies of "nightclub settings" that seem to catch on at boating exhibitions to sell the stuff. A GB is for the elements and your love grows by the years of marriage! Warranted! Have a look at our special designed interior at our homepage Bitten & Heine Askaer-Jensen, Grand Banks 47EU Heritage Trawler Motor Yacht in Singapore where you can read about ownership, considerations and personal experiences.
Kind boating regards from Singapore.
Heine
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Old 16-02-2011, 11:52   #26
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A boat for protected waters is quite different from a boat for heavy seas. Yet you probably want to avoid heavy seas in any event. Therefore, a boat for protected waters is probably what you want.

Oddly, boats for rough seas are slow, and yet the only people who NEED to go when the weather is rough are those on a schedule.

If you are going to cross the Atlantic, you can still do it on a boat really intended for protected waters -- a few do it every year. For example: trans atlantic flats boat - Google Search

If you don't really have a schedule, then you can certainly avoid rough weather on the routes you are talking about. You can even wait for conditions to get to the Caribbean: it does happen that there are weeks where the wind blows from the West between Florida and the Eastern Caribbean!

My experience is that stability (hard chines, wide beam) is a VERY bad thing for heavy weather offshore work. FThe reason: the more "stable" a boat is, the more it wants to stay "flat" with the surface of the water. If the water is flat, that's OK. When the seas are big, that is the OPPOSITE of what you want. In big seas, you want the boat to stay level with the horizon, and to be far from level with the surface of the water. Therefore, offshore in rough conditions, one wants a round bottom boat with active stabilizers.

And just as important as a round bottom is a balanced water plane. This means no fat transom following a fine entry, no fat bow leading a fat stern. You want something like a double ender, with the bow and stern somewhat fine, so the boat can stay more level with the horizon rather than following the surface of the seas. A fine entry with a fat stern causes the bow to plunge, then shoot upwards. Its very uncomfortable in heavy seas, and typical stabilizers don't help (Some exotic motion control systems do, but those cost far more than an entire 50 foot trawler).

However, rough conditions offshore in ANY yacht simply sucks. You don't want to go there!

Therefore, I strongly recommend you focus on most of the boats mentioned: Mainship, Grand Banks, ...

And I also second the advice that you want low decks around the entire boat so its easier around the docks for line handling and getting aboard. So more like a Grand Banks Classic, less like a Defever 44.

Single .vs. twin: great arguments both ways, most people are happy with whatever they choose. In my personal case, I am currently having the twins removed and replaced by a single, at great expense. But that's just me. I totally respect those who choose twin engines.
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Old 17-02-2011, 14:21   #27
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I am planning on purchasing a trawler 35-50 feet in length to use in the Chesapeake Bay in the summer and live on in Florida (Singer Island area) in the winter with an occasional trip to the Bahamas and the Keys. In doing my research I have subscribed to Passage Maker magazine and have read about the many brands of Trawlers available. It seems to me that some brands (like Nordhavn) would be too much boat for this type of coastal crusing whereas perhaps a Mainship or DeFever might be a better choice. Does anyone have any input? Also does anyone have any input on the Bayliner 4788 pilothouse motoryacht?
Those Bayliners actually are pretty good boats...yeah...they can and should have a few upgrades...but look at the systems...not all that bad and if you are not gonna cross a ocean...they can be a darn good choice.

I just bought an older 40 foot Albin trunk cabin single screw. Handles fine if you can drive a boat...just have Sea Tow just in case!!! A lot cheaper than the expense of a second engine....just like many commercial vessels.

Most boats are overkill for the ICW and a trip to the islands every once and awhile...with weather forecasting these days...only the ignorant or foolhardy get caught in terrible stuff...or they can't tend to/or move their boats when they need to.

Some of the newer Mainships are pretty thin...just had one crack it's decks just by being lifted by a travel lift. Defevers have a fine rep...Grand Banks often have a much higher price tag than they are worth (but that works for you on resale). You just have to stay away from neglected vessels no matter what make...some like pre-80/90's Marine Traders have some real issues although there are plenty out there that can be a smart purchase for the long haul. ANY mid-priced production boat from the pre-90s...unless it has had a MAJOR facelift is never going to be much more than a throwaway boat...so plan on it giving you good service for however long yuo are going to own it...and unless that major facelift has occured...don't expect much for her on the market.
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Old 11-03-2011, 18:26   #28
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Re: Trawler Purchase Advice

Is it possible to find a decent trawler in the $50,000 range? I'd like to know if trawler ownership is possiblr or if I should look for something else.
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Old 11-03-2011, 18:52   #29
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Re: Trawler Purchase Advice

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Is it possible to find a decent trawler in the $50,000 range? I'd like to know if trawler ownership is possiblr or if I should look for something else.
Decent is a pretty broad brush stroke.....depending on design...you may find something.

I found a decent one in the $50s but will need 2 years of off and on work and $20K to make her sweet doing all the work myself. She came with an 18 month old rebuilt 135 lehman...that was the deal sealer.

Most of the 40s in the $50K range are REALLY rough. The 36 foot range is more realistic for 50K if you want near turnkey...and a 36 is a nice cruising boat but tough to be a liveaboard if staying up north for the winter...possible but creature comforts need space.
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