Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-08-2013, 04:30   #31
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Tough Decision.

I stopped surveying wooden boats about ten years ago as I found people were unwilling to pay for the time it took to do properly.
The last one I surveyed was a stunning 37' Pacemaker. I started at 0630 and ran out of note paper at 2030. I could easily have spent another day on it but the owner would not let me pull fasteners for inspection (an absolute must). A truly thorough survey on a wooden boat of the type and size you have been looking at would take close to a week.
$$$$$$$$$$
__________________

__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 07:28   #32
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hailing Minny, MN
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 751
Images: 1
Re: Tough Decision.

I know how the right boat can just jump out at you when you're in the hunt.

I also know how easy it is to rabbit hole when your head's down in the boat search for so long.

Which applies to you I cant say.
__________________

__________________
laika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:38   #33
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,912
Re: Tough Decision.

This is your first boat. Buying a wooden one would be a huge mistake, particularly to live on with kids. Buying a wooden boat from europe that needs work would be a galactically huge mistake.

I have some broader advice: don't buy a boat that you've fallen in love with. Walk away from boats that you've fallen in love with and buy a boat that best fits your objective criteria.

Until you have lived on boats and been on lots of different boats and sailed on lots of different boats you really don't know anything about boats, and certainly don't know much about what is the perfect boat for you. If you fall in love with a boat, there is an outstanding chance that after a couple of months owning it you'll fall out of love with it as it's issues and ways in which it does not fit your needs become glaringly apparent. The simple fact that you are considering a wood boat tells me that you're not looking coldly and objectively at what you need but are instead being swayed by romantic notions.

If I were in your shoes, I would actually be looking for a boat that I expected to sell in 1-2 years, at which point I would have an excellent idea of of what I really wanted. That being the case, you should have a narrow list of models of boats that fit your objective needs that hold their value and represent not only a good buy today, but a good sell, in terms of resale value, in a couple of years. That would be a quality (i.e. semi-custom) 1980's blue water sloop or cutter that has been recently refit. The current owner will take the hit on the refit they did, and you'll be able to still leverage it when you sell the boat to move on to what you have learned you really want.

Don't buy a wooden boat. You're going to have enough on your plate without having to deal with all the issues that a wood boat presents.
__________________
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:47   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Tough Decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
This is your first boat. Buying a wooden one would be a huge mistake, particularly to live on with kids. Buying a wooden boat from europe that needs work would be a galactically huge mistake.

I have some broader advice: don't buy a boat that you've fallen in love with. Walk away from boats that you've fallen in love with and buy a boat that best fits your objective criteria.

Until you have lived on boats and been on lots of different boats and sailed on lots of different boats you really don't know anything about boats, and certainly don't know much about what is the perfect boat for you. If you fall in love with a boat, there is an outstanding chance that after a couple of months owning it you'll fall out of love with it as it's issues and ways in which it does not fit your needs become glaringly apparent. The simple fact that you are considering a wood boat tells me that you're not looking coldly and objectively at what you need but are instead being swayed by romantic notions.

If I were in your shoes, I would actually be looking for a boat that I expected to sell in 1-2 years, at which point I would have an excellent idea of of what I really wanted. That being the case, you should have a narrow list of models of boats that fit your objective needs that hold their value and represent not only a good buy today, but a good sell, in terms of resale value, in a couple of years. That would be a quality (i.e. semi-custom) 1980's blue water sloop or cutter that has been recently refit. The current owner will take the hit on the refit they did, and you'll be able to still leverage it when you sell the boat to move on to what you have learned you really want.

Don't buy a wooden boat. You're going to have enough on your plate without having to deal with all the issues that a wood boat presents.
You make a very good point. But, there's no way I could do sail.

Also, I am buying a boat that can be a comfortable liveaboard for 5 kids and 2 adults. I doubt anything that I would buy now, would be considered a "hot" or easy to sell boat later.
__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:22   #35
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,939
Images: 1
Re: Tough Decision.

galaxy,

you will end up a miserable boat owner if youh buy wooden, unlkess you have extremely deep pockets or are a very adept carpenter. you have nomidea of the work involved in owning and maintaining a wooden boat
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:46   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 267
Re: Tough Decision.

Do you know what it is fastened with? What kind of wood are the frames ? What kind of wood are the planks? How old is it? A couple of months ago you wanted a steel boat because you didn't think fiberglass was strong enough for a passagemaker. Buy a house. Go with something you know.
__________________
haw1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:53   #37
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Tough Decision.

I truly wonder how many of the naysayers here have lived, worked and maintained a wooden boat for over 5 years. My guess is not many... lots of hearsay, though!
When you look at the price of the plastic fantastics, boats of steel and ferro, there are some decent buys in the wood boat market that have been well maintained, safe, sea worthy and worth a look.
I agree with boatpoker... a thorough survey of a wooden boat takes longer, requires more experience and there are specific issues with wood that you don't have with other materials. As I recall it took a surveyor one complete day to survey only the hull of my old DeFever 54. Another day and a half to complete the uppers but all $ well spent.
A wooden boat you should probably pull every 2 years and check for rot and fastners but when you are paying 1/2 the price of a fiberglass vessel, it gives you alot to spend on that sort of thing. I'm not a great carpenter but regular maintenance like sanding, painting, varnising and basic mechanical stuff was fun for both of us. Sold ours for 125% of what we paid for her after 6 years living aboard so investmentwise, it was a good deal as well.
You have to love to work on them though... Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:54   #38
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,912
Re: Tough Decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
You make a very good point. But, there's no way I could do sail.

Also, I am buying a boat that can be a comfortable liveaboard for 5 kids and 2 adults. I doubt anything that I would buy now, would be considered a "hot" or easy to sell boat later.
Sail or power, same principle applies. I only said sail as I though I recalled that you were looking at sailboats some time ago. And because you were just asking about how an 8' draft would fare in the Caribbean.

And a boat does not have to be "hot", it just has to hold it's value for a couple of years.
__________________
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:54   #39
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,770
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Tough Decision.

make sure you are able to repair the stuff that is going to break--and recaulk frequently--wood needs to be recaulked yearly...and inspect planks or ply and ...... diligently......constantly. and stringers need inspection frequently if not constantly---ingress of water monitoring is important---so many things can change with wood hulls in so little time. i love wood hulls but i wouldnt buy one at present as i am not able to repair it myself.....i do love wood boats, tho....
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 11:58   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Tough Decision.

I think that GG is tempted because the boat has what she wants AND is what appears to be a steal. And a deal is always tempting. If the boats were side by side she might be better able to make a decision. I assume she's not been up close with the EU boat.

Boats require enormous amount of TLC and hard work to boot. If you have deep pockets and can find and pay for this what the material is hardly matters. But if you intend to be active in her care... and want to use her more than maintain her... you want a vessel that does not spend a lot of time "in the shop" even if you can pay for it!

I think the advice given to think of this as a boat you will sell in a few years to move into what will be the right boat AFTER you've been through the school of hard knocks is sage advice. Big yachts are not easy to sell... maybe easier to charter and that may not be what you want to do.

It was too good to be true...means it probably isn't! If you can afford the stateside boat and she passes the survey... my advice is to go for her.

I'm thrilled that this search is almost over. I am looking forward to seeing you on the water in NE... Do share a pic of your prize.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 21:00   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Tough Decision.

Thanks everyone for the good advice!!! I am listening.

It's a really difficult decision. I have an appointment with a boatyard in Cape Cod on Monday. They specialize in wood boat design, builds and maintenance. They are going to review the boat on paper and give me a concrete idea of what I would expect in time and cost for maintenance, assuming of course, that the boat is in excellent condition now (as represented). Then, I will be able to make an informed decision either way.
__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 21:12   #42
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Tough Decision.

Good luck, GG... Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 22:59   #43
Registered User
 
Krogensailor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Naples Fl
Boat: Kadey Krogen 38 cutter
Posts: 355
Images: 13
Re: Tough Decision.

I've been following some of your post's. I'm a woodworker/boat builder/luthier. DON"T BUY A WOODEN BOAT! Or a boat with +6' of draft, nor a boat with gasoline engines. It;s clear your heart is a boaters heart. And your going to buy a boat. Let your head make the choice. With expert counsel. Questions before deciding. What will you use the boat for? Were will you use the boat? Will you be on it full time, or part time? If the boat has extensive and complicated systems, can you service them? One of the folks on here has a tagline, something like,"Let your heart tell you were to go, but let your head tell you how to get there", Sounds like it's time to disengage the heart and shift to the head. Good luck. Happy sailing.
__________________
Krogensailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:20   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 371
Re: Tough Decision.

Remember the Bounty (and her crew!!)
__________________
chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:03   #45
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
Thanks everyone for the good advice!!! I am listening.

It's a really difficult decision. I have an appointment with a boatyard in Cape Cod on Monday. They specialize in wood boat design, builds and maintenance. They are going to review the boat on paper and give me a concrete idea of what I would expect in time and cost for maintenance, assuming of course, that the boat is in excellent condition now (as represented). Then, I will be able to make an informed decision either way.
Another voice for not choosing wood for your first cruising boat...

Consulting the yard is a great idea though. Run that info by the forum in broad brush and see if those that don't stand to gain a new client have anything to add. Definitely not for everyone, but then maybe you aren't everyone.... I quite like working with wood. I think I could enjoy keeping up with one if I was a full time live aboard without a family, a thousand acres, a gazillion livestock, and dozens of staff and several enterprises to keep up with. Right now I struggle to keep up with wood trim. Varnishing weather is sailing weather, but sometimes I can do it underway in the right conditions. Usually much busier with other things like fishing, and other systems maintenance/refit.

I recommend trying keeping up with trim and ships systems first. Invariably, the good weather you need for boating is the same weather you need for doing exterior work on the boat. Ships systems can take a lot of attention, too.

I just bought a copy of passagemaker magazine - really good content IMHO. There are some killer boats out there. I like a lot of those boats although I would not own one because of the cost of passagemaking - among other things - but there are some sweet ones. Vessels with lines akin to work boats and even research boats really do it for me. I can see getting a shrimp boat and using it for fishing and cruising one day, not so much for crossing oceans. I guess I can't get over my role feeding people....

Good luck with it. I think with the kids to keep up with and all the other basic maintenance you will have your hands full. Can probably get away with some deferred maintenance for a while then pay to have the yard bring it up to speed, but not a big fan of that approach - if even practical for this particular boat.
__________________

__________________
cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.