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Old 20-10-2010, 12:21   #16
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I agree with djm'... the only downside I have observed with the smaller Nordhavn's is they seem to be somewhat under powered which can be problematic in a heavy seaway. I have seen a couple of 40 footers rolling horridly in a 20 foot sea with outriggers set. I can't comment on the Krogen window issue but they are generally soundly built I understand. I've only been in the North Sea aboard an oil rig accessed by helicopter so can't comment on how any vessel would perform but it does get wicked out there, I know. CarlF's response about the Naiad stabilizer issue is cautionary but I never had a problem with mine aboard our DeFever and we passed close to the Columbia River bar as well as crossed the bar into Fort Bragg comfortably in 20-25 foot seas. In several other heavy weather conditions like leaving the Straits of Juan De Fuca, the Naiads performed well.
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Old 20-10-2010, 12:25   #17
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We love our Defever 41 but if I were to cruise across the Atlantic, I'd ship it. - Dockwise.
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Old 20-10-2010, 12:42   #18
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Originally Posted by GW2010 View Post
... But as part of that I would want to be able to trust the boat, for eg, do a 200 - 300 mile trip across the North Sea, or the Bay of Biscay.
Now I know from personal experience that very severe weather can at times be encountered on just those sort of relatively " short " trips. Even in the summer...
A 1900 nm TransAt might take about 2 weeks, whereas a 300nm N. Sea/Biscay trip could be done in about 2 (<3) days.

The difference in weather forecast accuracy between 3 days, 5 days and a fortnight, is HUGE.

Marine weather predictions of dangerous events are extremely accurate for up to 12 hours, very accurate to 24 hours, and fairly accurate through 3 day periods in advance.
The theoretical limit for which useful forecasts of daily weather can be made is of the order of 10 to 14 days; which considerably exceeds the present practical limit of 5 to 7 days.
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Old 20-10-2010, 17:48   #19
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Further to my recent: some years ago Passage Maker ran a survey on the specs that an experienced passage maker would write for a crossing and a stabilized single engine trawler was preferred by a goodly margin. Have two autopilots but one engine. Counterintuitive perhaps but those on the Nordhaven rally had auto pilot problems, as I recall.
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Old 20-10-2010, 19:19   #20
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Don't think the Krogens stack up well when compared to a DeFever. I know all the ads talk about they are never in a marina cause they are out cruising but in real life you just don't see them out and about. They have issues with their bottoms, osprey marine has found a nice little market in repairing them. But I am biased
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Old 24-10-2010, 05:42   #21
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my 41 defever has auto glass, laminated windows that have taken some pretty good sea-hits w/ no problem but i'd still cover them w/ p[lexigass/plywood for heavier weather. don't forget, as we did, to lock the sliding side doors, though. we didn't one time and after 8 hours in big seas got to port and realized the doors slid wide open letting in copious amts. of sea water...what a mess!!!!!
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Old 24-10-2010, 10:15   #22
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Hanschristian38 and Gord have really good points... if you can afford the shipping, I'd go that route considering the expected wear and tear on the boat and even assuming nothing major goes haywire. If the boat is new to you, you don't have the knowledge of working through all the systems for a year or two before making the crossing. Things will break, and at the most inopportune time. My comfort level is very high with DeFevers but I would not have attempted the west coast passage on mine without spending 6 months working out the bugs in what I considered a well found boat. I recall the Passage Maker article noting a preference for single engine that Melling is referring to assumed a good knowledge of diesel repairs and an extensive spare parts inventory. Back up autopilot is a great idea.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:58   #23
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[QUOTE=GW2010;543617]I live in the UK, but am looking to buy a trawler yacht in the US some time in 2011.
I'd be very grateful for comments on whether, say, A De Fever Passagemaker 41 is capable, ( ignoring fuel capacity in the first instance ), of making an Atlantic crossing, i.e. US - Bermuda - Azores - Portugal.


Graham,

Why cross Bermuda - Azores - Portugal. We were looking to cross St. John's, CAN, Greenland, Iceland, Ferro Island to UK and then down the coast to Portugal and Meds. Our range is 1200 NM, single Turbo Cat engine! It would seem to be more doable then the route you are talking about. Of course, we'd do this late June and come back next year. Wanna go home and visit beatuful Adria and Meds.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:20   #24
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Assuming the Defever 41 is the orginal model and not a new model, and assuming the hull design and build is the same, it has the same sea keeping characteristics as the 44, except you lose the 3 foot length advantage in following seas.

Re a northern route: I follow the "70,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong" rule. I have never heard of a pleasure cruiser taking that route and there must be a good reason. Again, maybe it is a general edict: Never go North of 40 North or South of 40 South. The gulf stream, or what is left of it at that latitude, is an opposing force. I don't know when the ice berg season begins and ends, but maybe that is a factor. There is a definitive book on the subject of transoceanic cruising routes but I can't remember the name.
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Old 21-11-2012, 21:15   #25
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

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Originally Posted by lorenzo b View Post
if you have not read Robert Beebe,s book on pasagemakers, you must. He relies on paravanes for stability on long crossings and recommends a single power plant. But please, get and read the whole book. It's the Bible.
can you give me the title of this book?
thanks
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Old 21-11-2012, 21:21   #26
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

[QUOTE=adriadream;554468]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2010 View Post
I live in the UK, but am looking to buy a trawler yacht in the US some time in 2011.
I'd be very grateful for comments on whether, say, A De Fever Passagemaker 41 is capable, ( ignoring fuel capacity in the first instance ), of making an Atlantic crossing, i.e. US - Bermuda - Azores - Portugal.


Graham,

Why cross Bermuda - Azores - Portugal. We were looking to cross St. John's, CAN, Greenland, Iceland, Ferro Island to UK and then down the coast to Portugal and Meds. Our range is 1200 NM, single Turbo Cat engine! It would seem to be more doable then the route you are talking about. Of course, we'd do this late June and come back next year. Wanna go home and visit beatuful Adria and Meds.
a defever 44 has crossed the pacific carrying 600 gallons of fuel extra. also a defever 40 has done the cape horn loop around south america so they must be seaworthy. go to the defever website and read some of the owners stories
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Old 21-11-2012, 22:12   #27
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post

But for cruising in any waters where 20' seas are possible, I would want a heavy boat with substantial ballast and first class systems installation, like the Nordhavn or Krogen.


David
Or a sailboat.

Not trying to start a sail vs. power argument at all, and I think those DeFevers are lovely boats. But for long ocean passages with risk of heavy weather there are so many inherent disadvantages to trawlers vs. sail which are so expensive and complicated to overcome that I think it's a good idea to have at least a short reality check.

For effortless coastal cruising a trawler is fantastic, with many advantages over sailboats. But crossing Biscay? Or the North Atlantic? You're trying to get something out of the boat it was not really designed for. Sure it's possible, but is it really worth it? If I were you, I would be sure to answer that question first, before proceeding to the next ones.

Dashew's writing on this is very useful. He built a totally competent transoceanic power cruiser. Look how different it is in every way from a trawler, especially, the hull form. Note also that it has sails for emergencies.
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Old 21-11-2012, 22:31   #28
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW2010 View Post
I live in the UK, but am looking to buy a trawler yacht in the US some time in 2011.
I'd be very grateful for comments on whether, say, A De Fever Passagemaker 41 is capable, ( ignoring fuel capacity in the first instance ), of making an Atlantic crossing, i.e. US - Bermuda - Azores - Portugal.

Having done 50,000+ offshore sea under sail as skipper I am pretty confident that I can decide how seaworthy a particular make of sailboat is, but motor yachts are a completely new proposition for me.

I'd appreciate comments on what factors might render a trawler yacht like a De Fever unsuitable for such a passage. For example :

Stability

Reliability of powerplant - I guess most people, ( like me), would think a single engine set up would be too vulnerable

Structural integrity of hull

Watertightness - here I'm principally thinking of perhaps the large windows in the surerstructure but maybe the possibility of pooping would be another issue

I will be very grateful for any input.

Regards,

Graham
DeFever is a great boat. Great hull design. My Dad's got a DeFever 52 Euro with 1300 mile range on 1300 gal in tanks at low rpms. At lower rpms and about 6 knots, we have almost 1800 nm range. Would still have to pack fuel. I know Nordy's are successful with single engines, but they also have a come-along or 'go home' with the generator driven prop. I'll take two engines. Clearly, I would never cross an ocean in this boat. Not designed for that. Down to Zihua Blue or Sea of Cortes, boy howdy!
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Old 21-11-2012, 23:04   #29
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

Melting and Bfloyd the book you are thinking of is "Admiralty Ocean Passages for the World, 5 thEd." Lists for $190 or so. It has everything you want to know - ice hazard locations and seasons, swells, currents etc. Find one in a used book store - can't go wrong.

There is another "Ocean Passages and Landfalls" by Heikell and O'grady that costs$60 or so. I don't know it.

Good luck.
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Old 22-11-2012, 00:16   #30
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Re: Suitability of Defever-Type Trawler for Atlantic Crossing ?

Haven't ever owned a trawler but when I was analyzing the feasibility of ocean crossing in a trawler the major limiting factor (other than fuel) was that all that I looked at (online) were old, and when I checked through a few blogs many needed a complete rebuild. Some had major structural problems.

And the cost difference between in water delivery and loading onto a cargo boat was not that large. Given the possibility of damage it might even be cheaper to engage one of the specialist firms to load, ship and unload the boat for you.
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