Stability of Slow Cruising a Deep Vee Hull in Rough Water

[zeehag]

sounds like a good repower, to me....2 msts and some rag---fly baby fly..lol...

[wmcruiser]

Hi , yes very pleased with repower (or diesel conversion ford 418 xld 60HP@4400rpm - used at 3400rpm max 50HP) water lock used for two reasons- on sterndrives conversion the exhaust normally would go down about 3ft into water through prop which is good silencer but lowers HP as restriction to flow and as it replaced a Mercruise v8 the riser height wasnt sufficient as conversion of cow horn exhaust tubes removes the non return valves (2" outlet into welded plate on a 4" outlet) and as boat on tidal moorings on english channel the tidal flow pretty fast and could back flow into engine.
the original cow horn exhaust have been blanked off and the internal water pump removed from leg drive as new repower has jabsco pump fitted to engine
The water lock has advantage of two things.
1 . visable exhaust water flow outlet with very low back pressure
2 . easy maintenance for winter drain down or replacements of parts without boat removal from water.

i used vetus 2" unit with vetus 2" exhaust hose no back pressure or flow problems.

have lots of tech data on project - in uk -sorry for delay in replies as time difference.

[Tony B]

Sooooooooo, how close to splashing are you?
I'm probably almost as excited as you are.

Tony B

[Fjord 9]

Hi, Blaine here. I joined recently, this is my fist Post.

Permission to Board Astral Blue? This thread has been an interesting read (far better then the Mayo threads). I'm in the process of buying my first boat. It's a 1975 28' Bayliner Victoria. 7,500lbs. The hull looks almost identical if not the same as yours. The length at the water line is 26'. I saw his original bill of sale. That is how they determined the length back then. The old man I'm buying it from purchased it in 1978. He said he could go a good ways up Vancouver Island(BC) and part way back to Richmond on one tank of gas. As like you, he just did slow speeds. To stop the "zig zaging" he installed a keel made of a long piece of wood, fiberglassed to the hull. (If you look at the pics in my profile you can see the keel). He said it also helps in docking too. Maybe you could consider doing this too. He said he would go out every weekend and sometimes return in fowl weather to get back to work on Monday. He said he would get soaked from the waves, being up on the fly bridge (hence is why he installed a bigger windshield up there.) He also extended the hull on either side of the leg to make a bigger swim platform. It was also mentioned that having a longer hull helps somehow ( if someone could chime in here about this as I was starting to loose focus at this point). Another thing he did ( a little to my disappointment) was move the two fresh water tanks into the v- berth. He said it helped keep the bow down at slower to mid speeds. Good thing? Bad thing? I guess I'll find out. And because he did a lot of trolling when he took it to get a rebuild, about 400 hours ago. The mechanic could tell he did a lot of slow trolling as the lifters were noisy. So he installed a bigger oil pump to combat this. It doesn't have a flowscan but it does of a needle gauge that goes from a green area into a red area to show fuel consumption. He said to keep in as much of the green as possible. I suppose it works on some sort of vacuum pressure from the fuel line?

As for you putting in a smaller Diesel engine. I can't see it as being a bad thing. If the rest of the boat is in good shape and you plan on keeping it a long time, the more money saved in fuel = more cruising time. Which is what it's all about. And as for the resale value, if you enjoy it a long time, who cares. And if you sell it when you're old and grey, what do you need a whole lot of money for? Wurthers Hard Candy? By then the Zombie Apocalypse will be here and if you think the price of fuel is high now? Yours will be the first to sell.

I think if the PO had the boat that long, he's had enough experience to figure out what mods it needed to make it better.

Can't wait to here about the new sea trials and seeing a new vid! I'll let you know how my handles slow/ruff waters when mine splashes in 2-3 weeks.

[Fjord 9]

Here's some pics.

Also: thanks to all the posters in this thread. It provides a lot of insight for me as we'll.

[Astral Blue]

Originally Posted by Fjord 9

Hi, Blaine here. I joined recently, this is my fist Post.

Permission to Board Astral Blue? This thread has been an interesting read (far better then the Mayo threads). I'm in the process of buying my first boat. It's a 1975 28' Bayliner Victoria. 7,500lbs. The hull looks almost identical if not the same as yours. The length at the water line is 26'. I saw his original bill of sale. That is how they determined the length back then. The old man I'm buying it from purchased it in 1978. He said he could go a good ways up Vancouver Island(BC) and part way back to Richmond on one tank of gas. As like you, he just did slow speeds. To stop the "zig zaging" he installed a keel made of a long piece of wood, fiberglassed to the hull. (If you look at the pics in my profile you can see the keel). He said it also helps in docking too. Maybe you could consider doing this too. He said he would go out every weekend and sometimes return in fowl weather to get back to work on Monday. He said he would get soaked from the waves, being up on the fly bridge (hence is why he installed a bigger windshield up there.) He also extended the hull on either side of the leg to make a bigger swim platform. It was also mentioned that having a longer hull helps somehow ( if someone could chime in here about this as I was starting to loose focus at this point). Another thing he did ( a little to my disappointment) was move the two fresh water tanks into the v- berth. He said it helped keep the bow down at slower to mid speeds. Good thing? Bad thing? I guess I'll find out. And because he did a lot of trolling when he took it to get a rebuild, about 400 hours ago. The mechanic could tell he did a lot of slow trolling as the lifters were noisy. So he installed a bigger oil pump to combat this. It doesn't have a flowscan but it does of a needle gauge that goes from a green area into a red area to show fuel consumption. He said to keep in as much of the green as possible. I suppose it works on some sort of vacuum pressure from the fuel line?

As for you putting in a smaller Diesel engine. I can't see it as being a bad thing. If the rest of the boat is in good shape and you plan on keeping it a long time, the more money saved in fuel = more cruising time. Which is what it's all about. And as for the resale value, if you enjoy it a long time, who cares. And if you sell it when you're old and grey, what do you need a whole lot of money for? Wurthers Hard Candy? By then the Zombie Apocalypse will be here and if you think the price of fuel is high now? Yours will be the first to sell.

I think if the PO had the boat that long, he's had enough experience to figure out what mods it needed to make it better.

Can't wait to here about the new sea trials and seeing a new vid! I'll let you know how my handles slow/ruff waters when mine splashes in 2-3 weeks.

Hi Blaine! Welcome to CF! After getting all the mechanical kinks resolved, we have been very happy with the performance. The Perkins 4.108 is a true fuel-sipping workhorse!

As far as stability at low speeds is concerned, we have noticed no problems with respect to handling wakes, swells, and rollers. Most of them have been in the three foot and under range; and have been handled quite well by the hull.

We have put a few dozen hours on it so far and have subjected it to as many conditions as the summers in the California Delta throw at us. In other words, we haven't encountered much rough weather!

The zigzag motion you noted is referred to as bow wander. It is quite common on deep vee and modified vee hulls. The Bayliner Victoria has a modified vee hull. The wandering subsides at about 5 knots; and at 6 knots, it is non-existent. We have been cruising mostly at the 6 to 6.5 knot range and have been very happy with how she handles.

With regard to the relocation of the fresh water tank to the bow, the previous owner did you a huge favor! With the old Chevy 350 engine I had, the stern was disproportionately heavy. We have the complete opposite situation after the repower. Now that we have shed about 400 lbs, the water line at the stern has become two inches lower.

[CPseudonym]

Ed, I thoroughly enjoyed this thread having read it for the first time tonight. Good to see all went well in your conversion. If your down near Franks Tract area and see us anchored swing in for a cold beverage and firm handshake.

[Astral Blue]

Hi Craig... Our marina (Delta Bay Marina) is a stone's throw from Frank's Tract. We cruised the northern span this past weekend. We'd love to meet with CF'ers in the delta. We will most likely be cruising in the area on Sunday. We always monitor VHF 16. Feel free to hail us.

[CPseudonym]

We're neighbors Ed, Perry's at the highway 12 bridge is where I tie the lines. We can often be found on various weekends anchored behind the tule berm where Old & False rivers Y branch at the top of the Tract. Occasionally in the horseshoe cove 1/4 mile above Tower Park. If not there we'll be slow cruising the same routes you cruise enjoying the day.

Boat in my avatar is a 27' Owens with black canvas and trim. Named Bliss but the transom is currently bare. We monitor 16 too.

A couple other Brannon Island berthers and I are on TrawlerForum with a fairly active group of Bay & Delta cruisers. Have our own private subgroup to arrange meet-ups and such.

[llewey22]

Congratulations! It sounds like you ended up with the perfect boat for you (if only we could all be as fortunate). I am a new member, but have been following your repower with interest, since you and I have almost the same boat (mine is the command bridge). I won't be doing any motor changes, but am also more inclined to cruise versus see everything go by on a blur :-) I am interested in your thoughts on the most efficient speed with my Chevy 350 & Volvo 280? I am berthed in Antioch, so we cover some of the same water for sure. I just purchased mine 3 months ago, but I also was fortunate that she was well taken care of & she runs perfect. I'd appreciate your opinion!
Kevin

[Cheechako]

The most efficient non-planing speed will be when you are not pushing a big bow wave. That range of speed when the boat is trying to get up on plane, but pushing alot of water is very inefficient. The most efficient is at low cruising rpm on a plane, , maybe 3500 rpm or so, although gulping gas... you are going 30 mph.

[Astral Blue]

Welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by llewey22

Congratulations! It sounds like you ended up with the perfect boat for you (if only we could all be as fortunate). I am a new member, but have been following your repower with interest, since you and I have almost the same boat (mine is the command bridge). I won't be doing any motor changes, but am also more inclined to cruise versus see everything go by on a blur :-) I am interested in your thoughts on the most efficient speed with my Chevy 350 & Volvo 280? I am berthed in Antioch, so we cover some of the same water for sure. I just purchased mine 3 months ago, but I also was fortunate that she was well taken care of & she runs perfect. I'd appreciate your opinion!
Kevin

Hi Kevin... My boat is the command bridge model as well. As far as efficient speed goes, you will have the best fuel economy at or slightly below hull speed, which is 6.7 knots for this boat. I am achieving great economy at 6 knots, but I think that might be a bit too slow for most people's preferences.

I would highly recommend you purchase a FloScan fuel flow meter. It is by far one of the most valueable navigation instruments I have. It will pay for itself quite quickly.

I gathered data for my boat's fuel use prior to the repower. Here is some info:



I had a fuel flow meter connected as I was gathering data for the repower. At the time, we had identical configurations. My top speed was in the low 20's and I was using 24 gallons per hour. At 7 knots, I was using about 4 gallons per hour. It is definitely not the most efficient hull for planing and is underpowered for that purpose, which is why top speed is so low. However, it is very stable (especially given its narrow beam) and offers a relatively smooth ride. In my opinion, the hull handles much better at low speeds than it does at high speeds.

The repower got a lot of attention in the Bayliner Owner's club. I have all the data I gathered regarding fuel usage and speed on the below thread.

BAYLINER® OWNERS' CLUB

[llewey22]

Sorry, still learning what boat I have I guess (no fly bridge)! Thanks for the info, as my top speed seems to be about 25 mph @ 3400 rpm as well. I could almost feel the money draining from my wallet when going that speed! I'll definitely be chugging along at 7 knots or so, since in my case money does not grow in my garden & I usually stay within a couple miles of home port (we are fishermen more than cruisers). I appreciate all the data as well & will look into a flo meter too.
Happy boating,
Kevin

[Astral Blue]

Originally Posted by llewey22

Sorry, still learning what boat I have I guess (no fly bridge)! Thanks for the info, as my top speed seems to be about 25 mph @ 3400 rpm as well. I could almost feel the money draining from my wallet when going that speed! I'll definitely be chugging along at 7 knots or so, since in my case money does not grow in my garden & I usually stay within a couple miles of home port (we are fishermen more than cruisers). I appreciate all the data as well & will look into a flo meter too.
Happy boating,
Kevin

Kevin, there might be confusion here regarding terminology. The model WITH a flybridge is referred to as the command bridge; and the model WITHOUT the flybridge is referred to as the sunbridge.

Here is a photo of my boat, which is the command bridge:


Astral Blue 049 by alagozian, on Flickr

Hope this helps.

[llewey22]

Ed,
Thanks for the clarification. I'm posting a photo of mine just for fun. Mine's a 1980, yours looks much newer?
Kevin