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**Rocketman** · 18-06-2012, 17:09

I can understand now, how you could indead spend that kind of money on rigging and sails, but with all due respect, this hardly represents the typical cruising sailboat. When you start talking about race or high performance rigs, and sails you are talking mucho da-narrow. Your standard rigging and sails would normally cost many times less, and last many years longer. I do not believe as a general rule, most cruisers are willing to spend this kind of money for equipement with such a short life span, when there hull speed is will not support it. We are talking apples and oranges.

**markpierce** · 18-06-2012, 17:38

Is it really a matter of economics when choosing between sail versus power boat? It wasn't for me. My GF doesn't like to be "too close to the water" boating in an open cockpit, and I'm getting too old to be cranking/pulling halyards and sheets.

Pulling halyards and sheets is OK if it is optional and the sails are small.

**Rocketman** · 18-06-2012, 17:46

Very cool, thanks for the pics

SimonV · 18-06-2012, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

You have a 40 ft benny not a 50 ft performance cat.
Different boat, different loads

I am going on my observations on my last boat , a 32 ft performance cruiser cat that was sailed on average, 150nm a week every week in a tropical climate, so UV degradation for a start is high.
I had quality sails and fittings on this vessel and after 3 years had to replace the oversized forestay wire as 3 strands had broken.
As a matter or course I replaced the other 2 shrouds while at it.
In the 5th year I had a lightning strike so replaced all wire.
The 5 year old fully battened square top main made from cruise lam held great shape , until it didnt.
About 500nm into the delivery to her new owners it blew almost full width at the first reef point, in my opinion while repairable in the short term it was a bin job.
The Mylar Genoa good for 15 knots was showing major breakdown after 3 years, though we did still use it (patched) until vessel was sold.
The cruislam working jib was still OK after 5 years, but definitely had signs of wear, like the main, and being from the same material, may have gone at any moment..

Observations on wire and sails of other performance cats, that get used as any performance vehicle should

would support my 5 year to 7 year replacement .

Naturally if I was building a sailing vessel that simply could not perform (sail at wind-speed and high teens), so no point driving her hard, then I imagine the gear would last longer.
Unfortunately for me that style of sailing vessel holds little interest to me.

I have 2 x 65hp diesels, hardly a big motor
I expect based on similar vessels usage, that a 1 litre/nm @ 8 knots will be easily achievable. I would hope for better given the right conditions.

The sailing version of same vessel would have 50hp x 2, so similar cost and maintenance. (plus the cost of big rig and sails)

Genset will be a 2 kva Honda or similar.

You need to read the OP he is talking about cruising Trawlers not a high powered race boat. Oranges for oranges. Total cost for a 40 foot mono with basic cruising sails 135% furling heady $3660, full baton main with 3 reef points and Bat cars, is $3875. All Standing Rigging replaced $3300..

BillAU · 19-06-2012, 00:17

Simon, you're still talking $10,835 for sails and rigging, then you have your diesel on top of that

I love sailing but I reckon at my age and for my use, crusing the East coast of Australia, stopping in places I like for a month or so, I'll be better of with a power boat. The powerboat I'm looking at, 32', has everything I need and is big enough for me and me little dog to be comfy in, and should not break the bank putting diesel in the tank

Bill
Australia

**cat man do** · 19-06-2012, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonV

You need to read the OP he is talking about cruising Trawlers not a high powered race boat.

High powered race boat?
I have 65hp x 2

**cat man do** · 19-06-2012, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillAU

Simon, you're still talking $10,835 for sails and rigging, then you have your diesel on top of that

I love sailing but I reckon at my age and for my use, crusing the East coast of Australia, stopping in places I like for a month or so, I'll be better of with a power boat. The powerboat I'm looking at, 32', has everything I need and is big enough for me and me little dog to be comfy in, and should not break the bank putting diesel in the tank

Bill
Australia

$11,000 buys a lot of fuel for an efficient 32footer with 50horses plugging along at 7 or 8 knots

Not quite but close
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-fo...spx?R=12188526
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-fo...spx?R=12396941

SimonV · 19-06-2012, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillAU

Simon, you're still talking $10,835 for sails and rigging, then you have your diesel on top of that

I love sailing but I reckon at my age and for my use, crusing the East coast of Australia, stopping in places I like for a month or so, I'll be better of with a power boat. The powerboat I'm looking at, 32', has everything I need and is big enough for me and me little dog to be comfy in, and should not break the bank putting diesel in the tank

Bill
Australia

My rigging gets swapped out bit by bit, sails are 9 years old and have some years left in them . Over a theoretical 10 years of service including fuel that works out to about 40 Nm to the $.

**Rocketman** · 19-06-2012, 06:49

I would hardly call a 50 ft powercat a trawler, while it is true; I would love to own one, because it is very comfortable in all sea conditions and sips the fuel, goes reasonably fast and does not have expensive rigging and sails. I do not own one because the original investment is normally 500K+. I think the orriginal post was about a trawler vs sailboat. When I think trawler, I think about a 35-45ft mono hull simular to the one markpierce posted. While some cruisers enjoy 50ft cats with sails, with simular price tags of 500K+, they are rare. While cruising around Florida and the Bahamas, the large majority of sailboats are 30-45ft mono hull sailboats, and I suspect it is because of there low cost to own and operate.

**cat man do** · 19-06-2012, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocketman

I would hardly call a 50 ft powercat a trawler, When I think trawler, I think about a 35-45ft mono hull simular to the one markpierce posted.

So all those "actual" trawlers larger than 45ft aren't actually trawlers according to you?

And the cruising trawlers like the Nordhavn range cant possibly be trawlers either?

And catamarans, even though they also have fishing vessels, trawlers, in large sizes also cant possibly be classed as a trawler, according to you

When discussing trawlers for cruising I am not so myopic in my view as to only consider a small section of the boating market. (35 to 45ft mono)
Personally, I consider "trawler" more to be about speed and range as in a vessel that is designed to run comfortably and economically in the pre teen knot range.

Quote:

I think the orriginal post was about a trawler vs sailboat

You thought wrong
I consider my vessel to both a trawler (speed and range) and a powerboat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoF1

I have a question for the trawlers/powerbooats that have been hopping to the Bahamas and/or Caribbean.

**Rocketman** · 19-06-2012, 16:50

Cat Man Do, I like the way you think, BIG is better, unfortunity I have never had the pocket book to match

Even if I could come up with the money to buy something like these boats, I could never afford to operate them.

**Therapy** · 19-06-2012, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

Is it really a matter of economics when choosing between sail versus power boat? It wasn't for me. My GF doesn't like to be "too close to the water" boating in an open cockpit, and I'm getting too old to be cranking/pulling halyards and sheets.

Is that your GF in the hat?

Sorry

**markpierce** · 19-06-2012, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapy

Is that your GF in the hat?

Sorry

No, that's my father. GF took the photo. Here is GF:

**donradcliffe** · 19-06-2012, 17:43

Having switched from a 45 ft mono sailboat to a 42 ft trawler, I think the economics depend on how you are going to use the boat. The sailboat got a new sails and rig every 10 years for about $11k all up, and that was averaging 6,000 miles per year. The fuel costs for the trawler are running about $2 per mile. If you go 1000 miles per year, the trawler fuel will cost about twice what the sailboat sails and rigging would, but fuel is comparable to dockage, insurance, depreciation,and other costs. If you plan on 5,000 miles per year (I averaged 6,000 miles/yr sailing for 15 years), the fuel bill is going to be THE significant cost item.

At this point I've been cruising from Florida to Annapolis and have bought $3k worth of fuel, but only plan to go another 1500 mile this season. I love the way the scenery goes by from the flybridge, but hate beam winds of only 15 knots.

The other thing I have learned about powerboats is that new engines are really expensive--I'm hearing that it would cost over $50k to repower and that the boat has to be torn apart to get the engines out.

**markpierce** · 19-06-2012, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Having switched from a 45 ft mono sailboat to a 42 ft trawler, I think the economics depend on how you are going to use the boat.

Definitely. Most boats spend the vast majority of their time in marinas. Effecient trawlers and "normal" useage should result in a fuel bill equal to one or two month's berthing costs in a year. Majority of boat-ownership costs are either fixed or unexpected (something breaks). Fuel expense is typically minor at four miles per gallon.