Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-07-2010, 15:58   #16
Registered User
 
speciald@ocens.'s Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat - Carib, Chesapeake
Boat: 58 Taswell AS
Posts: 1,139
In case anyone is interested, it is spelled NORDHAVN (no"E").
__________________

__________________
speciald@ocens. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 16:17   #17
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by speciald@ocens. View Post
In case anyone is interested, it is spelled NORDHAVN (no"E").
You had me worried there, I thought I must have made an elementary spelling mistake.

>
__________________

__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us”. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 16:29   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 945
We went nearly full circle during our search, which is still ongoing. I've had several friends that had the luxury cruisers (Azimut, Ferretti, etc..). Those are just plain awesome and are floating penthouses with running costs to match. We were then turned on to Trawlers, but seeing the possible future of oil, etc.. We headed towards the sailboat options. I think the best compromise that entails nearly all categories, in my opinion, are some really well built motorsailors/pilothouse sailing yachts. You have the better design of a monohull, coupled with huge tankage for nearly 3000+ NM reach per filling. That coupled again, with the sail options.

We are either leaning towards a proper pilothouse/motorsailor or a very well equipped sail that has huge tankage and an efficient engine... But, like everything else, every category has their pros and cons.
__________________
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 16:48   #19
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post
You have the better design of a monohull, coupled with huge tankage for nearly 3000+ NM reach per filling. .
How do you figure that Mono design is better for power or motorsail?
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 16:50   #20
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew13440 View Post
Good quality, brand new sails will run two to five thousand, depending on the boat. And they will realistically last for many, many years if properly cared for. Sun is the killer - cover them always when not in use.
LOL
Headsail alone would have cost about $5k on the cat I am building, if I put a rig on it.

Full suit of new sails would be at least $20k
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 16:55   #21
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 320
Quote:
LOL
Headsail alone would have cost about $5k on the cat I am building, if I put a rig on it.

Full suit of new sails would be at least $20k
Whoops, I am not a Cat guy, sorry smallish mono was what I was thinking. You guys spend way too much on just about everything, if you ask me. Your choice....
__________________
Drew13440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 17:06   #22
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post
We are either leaning towards a proper pilothouse/motorsailor or a very well equipped sail that has huge tankage and an efficient engine... But, like everything else, every category has their pros and cons.
If I was thinking of changing back to sail, this is the boat I'd be wanting to own Nordhavn 56 Motorsailer "Ata Marie"

P.
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us”. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 17:38   #23
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Boat: Farr 46
Posts: 124
from Nordhavn's house magazine, Circumnavigator
Nordhavn 72, 535 hp, 4,100gal, 3000NM range at cruise of 10 kts (S/L ratio 1.2)
this equates to around 13.6 gph, so the figure of 15 gph with genset use looks about right.
In reality on long passages all displacement boats typically run at S/L<1.0 to gain the necessary range. The N46's for example travel at 6-6.5kts on their long runs, about what my 47' yacht averages.
Steve Dashew did some calcs (in his customary fashion) comparing his large motor boat with his previous large yachts, and he concluded the motor boat was somewhat cheaper to own.
__________________
Marinheiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2010, 18:17   #24
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Good to see you power boaters squabbling as much as us blow boaters...

We got tired of the 1000 dollar 7 day trip fuel bills....it wasn't so much the actual money ( ok yes it was) as it was not seeing a return in forking it out, other then a breadcrumb trail on the chart plotter...At least now we get to watch our pretty sails billow with air and swing in the rigging ...

Of course a twin screwed 500 hp 30' sea-ray is not even in the same league as a 50' trawler fuel efficiency wise... even trying to play being a trawler 95% of the time on one screw at 7 kts, so some day its possible we will go back and give another go..................................many years down the road....................maybe.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2010, 16:57   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
How do you figure that Mono design is better for power or motorsail?
I basically just made a very general and blanket statements. There are myriad of variations and variables, that I will not even attempt to get into. I do however, know about your calculations for your power cat and I fully agree that you are definitely ahead of the game. But, can I assume that your calculations will only work in the asian countries because of very low fuel costs.. Remind me as I haven't read your debate thread in a very long time..
__________________
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2010, 16:58   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwife View Post
If I was thinking of changing back to sail, this is the boat I'd be wanting to own Nordhavn 56 Motorsailer "Ata Marie"

P.
We are with you, when they first released the first photos of that prototype, we were really impressed.. It really fits all of our needs and wants..
__________________
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2010, 17:18   #27
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post
I basically just made a very general and blanket statements. There are myriad of variations and variables, that I will not even attempt to get into. I do however, know about your calculations for your power cat and I fully agree that you are definitely ahead of the game. But, can I assume that your calculations will only work in the asian countries because of very low fuel costs.. Remind me as I haven't read your debate thread in a very long time..
I believe that it would be pretty equal in Australia cost wise (light and lean 50 ft performance sail VS Light and lean 50 ft economical power) if just doing coastal.

But it would still mean me sailing to offshore reef areas (50-200nm out) when there is wind, and you don't want to be out there when there is wind, you want to be out there when it is calm.

When in Asian waters (cheaper diesel) I believe "rigless" puts me miles in front.
Add in the cheaper cost of living and that saving helps offset the cost of cheap fuel considerably.
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 15:32   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vancouver BC
Boat: Sea Ray 53
Posts: 3
Wink

Hi all...first post here..just found this site.

I'll just start by saying that a sailboat doesn't suit me as I am in tricky waters, have no desire to go around the world,like to have elbow space,like having windows bigger than a canteloupe,and hate crawling up and down that dam step ladder you sailors call companionway steps

Maybe a better way would be to see how many actual hours a boat gets used,and if it's practical either way.

I prefer coastal cruisers 'cuz that's what suits me.
Living in Vancouver,it's easy for me to take off and be somewhere useful within an hour or 3-but with a sailboat or trawler it's very difficult to get away on a weekend to other than very local areas that one's been to many times before..

A friend has a large trawler,and he gets slightly better fuel mileage but his boat cost seven figures +,and mine 30% of that.
He uses his for his summer holidays only and the odd long weekend.
Mine has more useable space than his.

Another friend has a 42' sailboat:same sort of deal,he's too slow to get anywhere useful on a weekend,so he sails around English Bay-which is fun for a while,but it gets boring.

I've read a few posts about how X boat used thousands of dollars to go 200 miles etc etc. but mention should be made of the mileage they could get if they slowed down.

I used to have a 39' Meridian aft cabin,as much living space as a 45'+ trawler..and I burned just over 3 gallons at 7.5 knots= 2+ mpg. Cool thing is the mpg was almost the same mpg at 10 knots as it was at 21 knots.
It had more useable space than a friend's 53' sailboat,and he got a bit better mpg which irked him quite a bit.

A friends 60' Bluewater Cruiser at 9 knots uses under 3 gph-3 mpg-and it gets essentially the same mpg from 14 to 21 knots.

My Sea Ray 53' if you firewall it will burn 60 gph @ 30 knots but if you throttle her down to 8.5-9 knots (she wanders around a little ) she's around 5 gph so a little under 2 mpg.
Haven't measured in years,not worth bothering with.

But as a coastal cruiser,the 100-125 hours a year I use her (much more than average) works out to a couple-three grand a year-which is the same or less than my sailboat friends spend on booms,ropes,winches,sails etc. each year.

A recent rope winch he bought would keep me fueled for a year.
He's looking at a new electric furling boom with all the goodies,I think it's $12k.
And I do realize a few can make their own mast,and go really cheap on stuff...but offshore in a storm I want that good hardware to keep me alive.

I know about the fuel burning stigma etc etc but I work from home,live within 100 meters of all my shopping-so outside of visiting parents,I might drive 80 km /50 miles on a busy month.

My friend's trawler which rarely leaves the dock: take the difference in price,put in the bank at SFA interest rates=9 times more than I spend on fuel a year.

It's all dependant on how much and where the boat is really used,instead of what it's mileage is.

If it's not diesel,it's a $25k mast-if it's not oil changes and injectors it's $12k furlers and $2.5 k winches.

Either way it's Break Out Another Thousand, or Bend Over And Takeit.
__________________
WestcoasterD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2010, 21:12   #29
Registered User
 
Delfin's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: 55' Romsdal
Posts: 1,390
Interesting discussion. We made the switch to the dark, noisy side from a Cape George cutter we sailed for 20 years. Our new, and last boat is a 55' Romsdal trawler built in 1965 and refit between 2003 and 2007. She is powered by a CAT 3306 and with 2400 gallons of fuel at 7.25 knots burns about 2.75 gph, giving her a range of around 6300 miles. We'll know for sure once we leave for Oz and NZ in three years, but our experience so far would indicate that we should be able to operate Delfin for $50,000 - $60,000 per year at a high standard of maintenance and reasonable life style including $15,000 in fuel.

We very much like the additional space of a trawler, and we don't feel that we have given up any particular level of sea worthiness. While living onboard Anthem, our Cape George 36' would have been elegant camping, living on Delfin is extremely comfortable.

http://www.delfin.talkspot.com
__________________
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2010, 21:47   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
I believe that it would be pretty equal in Australia cost wise (light and lean 50 ft performance sail VS Light and lean 50 ft economical power) if just doing coastal.

But it would still mean me sailing to offshore reef areas (50-200nm out) when there is wind, and you don't want to be out there when there is wind, you want to be out there when it is calm.

When in Asian waters (cheaper diesel) I believe "rigless" puts me miles in front.
Add in the cheaper cost of living and that saving helps offset the cost of cheap fuel considerably.
I know that your thread from a long time ago, totally put things into perspective in power cats. I'm totally with you on that front. I also heard that it is gorgeous to live in the asian waters...
__________________

__________________
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.