Passagemaking question???

[GalaxyGirl]

Hello all,
For several months I have been researching and flipping through Yachtworld trying to figure out what boat I need and will possibly purchase this Spring. I think that I may have narrowed it down. I need a comfortable liveaboard with 4 or 5 staterooms (kids). I would like to be at 65' as to be manageable. I definitely need a boat that I can one day cross oceans in. I do not want to upgrade later when my kids are off to college and I'm ready to travel the world. I need something affordable. I think that a 65' Hat or a 66' Choey Lee might be the way to go for me.

My question is: What exactly makes a boat a LRC. I noticed that the LRC's have a greater fuel capacity and water capacity. Is that it?

Also, can I refit a larger tank in a motor yacht to make it long range?

Does one actually need a "LRC" for world travel or is the larger holding tank just a convenience while purchasing and storing fuel at a good price?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[skipmac]

First, yes, one of the factors that makes a power boat a Long Range Cruiser is the fuel capacity to to Long Range.

In very round numbers here are my estimates. If you are planning to cross the Atlantic to Europe or the Pacific to Hawaii and the the South Sea Islands you will need a boat with a minimum range PLUS RESERVES of 2000 miles or 3000 miles for the Pacific. I would use a very, very rough rull of thumb for a power boat in the 60' plus range at a very conservative speed say you will use about one gallon of fuel per mile. So to cross the Atlantic safely you would need a boat with fuel tanks of +/- 3000 gallons and over 4000 gallons to cross the Pacific.

Unless you get into the megayacht sizes you will pretty much be limited to just a few of the trawler yachts that are designed to cross oceans.

Adding hundreds or thousands of gallons of fuel to a boat not designed to carry that weight and going out into the open ocean could be a very risky proposition. The weight of that much extra fuel could have significant impact on the stability of the boat not to mention the stress on the structure.

Several previous threads have discussed this in great detail. There is no easy answer or shortcut to crossing the coean in a power boat. You will have to find a serious boat with very large fuel capacity.

You can try to get around these limitations by planning your trip to circle the edges of the ocean but these routes present some serious challenges in many ways. US to Europe you can go up the coast, to Canada - Newfoundland - Greenland - Iceland - Faroe Islands - UK - etc. But obvioulsy you are cruising in the far north regions with high odds of storms even in mid summer. The Pacific you can go up the coast to Alaska but then you have to deal with the politics of trying to get a permit to cruise down the coast of Russia and again you are in stormy northern waters.

The simplest, safest, easiest thing to do is buy a proper trawler that is designed for crossing oceans.

[goboatingnow]

Small ocean crossing motorboats are a very very rare breed, with possibly Dashews WindHorse series exemplifying the best of that breed followed closely by Nordhaven. And that's about it at present.

These are all $1 million type boats.

dashew list the FR 64 as having 6400nm range with capacity of 3400 gallons , ie about .5 miles per gallon at a speed of 9 knots. Thos would be a typical requiremt and Nordhaven is similar albeit a bit less.

In practice ocean crossing moboats are for those with extraordinary deep pockets financially. If you have those pockets I suggest you contract Dashew for advice. Because very few people have any real knowledge.

For the rest of us, Sail is the only practical method and increasingly so.

In reality Mobos are short distance or coastal hoppers. You really need to redefine your objectives if you stay with a mobo. It makes no sense to consider a liveaboard that could become a LRC. , best sell one and buy the other when the time comes. The worst decisions in boat selection is searching for a " ultimate" boat or one that meets perceived requirements in the future and in doing so either causes the spending of unnecessary funds today or sacrificing features useful for the immediate requirement.

In practice its easier and possibly cheaper to just ship your motorboat across oceans on a ship.

Dave

[skipmac]

Here are links to a few previous thread discussing long distance cruising in power boat.


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ble-64639.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ing-48698.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ion-33311.html



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...hip-55341.html

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In practice its easier and possibly cheaper to just ship your motorboat across oceans on a ship.

Dave

Wow, that's an intersting thought. I didn't realize that was possible. That's why these forums are great. Folks open your eyes to things that you had no clue about. Shipping the boat, when the time comes, would solve my problem altogether, and, it probably won't cost too much more than the fuel cost it would have taken.

So, ocean-crossing would be like the US to Europe, right? This is not the same as Florida to the Carribean or Cali to Hawaii, correct? I could do the Carribean Hawaii type trips in a Hat Long rang or Choey Lee or similar. Do I have this right?

Also, if that is right, then what type of range or fuel capacity would a boat need to have to make those trips. Is a long range even necessary for this type trip or could I just go with a good trawler?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

Wow, that's an intersting thought. I didn't realize that was possible. That's why these forums are great. Folks open your eyes to things that you had no clue about. Shipping the boat, when the time comes, would solve my problem altogether, and, it probably won't cost too much more than the fuel cost it would have taken.

So, ocean-crossing would be like the US to Europe, right? This is not the same as Florida to the Carribean or Cali to Hawaii, correct? I could do the Carribean Hawaii type trips in a Hat Long rang or Choey Lee or similar. Do I have this right?

Also, if that is right, then what type of range or fuel capacity would a boat need to have to make those trips. Is a long range even necessary for this type trip or could I just go with a good trawler?

Yes you have it right. There are even custom transporters of yachts and Mobos with drive on/ off loading and you can live onboard for the crossing. google Dockwise.

As to range ,I'd say have a minimum 25% more range then the longest journey considered. By preference I would have twice the range

Dave

[boden36]

You could have a look at the George Buehler Diesel Duck range, although I doubt that they would have the room you need.
Regards,
Richard.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

So, ocean-crossing would be like the US to Europe, right? This is not the same as Florida to the Carribean or Cali to Hawaii, correct? I could do the Carribean Hawaii type trips in a Hat Long rang or Choey Lee or similar. Do I have this right?

California to Hawaii is very much an ocean crossing. It's the greatest distance between two land masses anywhere on the planet with absolutely no possible diversion opportunity in between. The nearest land is either California or Hawaii.

[cat man do]

I would be all over this

68' Foam Kevlar Power Cat
Current Price: US$ 595,000

Just had a major refit as well

Awesome I is the first of eight power catamarans, originally designed as a stable platform to cruise from New Zealand to Tahiti without fuel stops. (same as San Diego to Hawaii)
Therefore she has the ability to cover great distances efficiently and at comfortable speeds. At an economic cruise speed of 20 knots, she can cover close to 500 miles in a day.

I imagine she would have a much higher range again at 12 knots

1993 Awesome Powerboats Power Cat Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com...

[downunder]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I would be all over this

68' Foam Kevlar Power Cat
Current Price: US$ 595,000

Just had a major refit as well


I imagine she would have a much higher range again at 12 knots

1993 Awesome Powerboats Power Cat Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com...

Would be a good vessel, provoven on those routes.

[GrowleyMonster]

Don't try to outsmart the designer. There are stability considerations to consider. And it is not simply a matter of getting all the weight down low. When the GM is too high the boat's motion can become very violent. It will roll with a most uncomfortable and even dangerous snappy motion. There is a sweet zone where the roll is neither too short or too long. The design draft should not be exceeded, either. Give the designer credit for knowing a little about what he is doing. Extra fuel tanks of meaningful size are not really a good add-on. For a sailboat, where a 20 gallon tank added to a 40 foot boat is a significant increase, sure, it is do-able. For a power boat, it already probably has the appropriate tankage.

I have sailed on Ro/Ro ships that carry at least a couple of yachts on every ocean crossing. Sometimes it looks like a whole marina under the liftable decks. The boat is first shrink wrapped, (optional) cradled, and loaded on a special heavy trailer called a Mafi. A specialized tractor pulls it up the stern ramp or side ramp of the ship. Stevedores lash it down. At the other end, it is pulled off, lifted off the Mafi, and loaded on a railroad flatcar, a flatbed trailer, or whatever, transported to a lift, de-cradled and splashed. Your boat is covered against damage and I don't know what it costs, but I would imagine about half of what your fuel would cost on a North Atlantic crossing.

Smaller boats are often loaded onto what is called flat-racks for shipping on container ships.

Me, I burn about a tablespoon of fuel leaving my slip. The rest is free energy. Motorboats have a lot of comforts and conveniences associated with running the engine 24/7 and having plenty of electricity and air conditioning available, but between the uncomfortable motion and the fuel expense, is it really worth it?

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by downunder

Would be a good vessel, provoven on those routes.

A few months ago, when I first began my boat research, back in June I think, I expored whether I would go Cat or sailboat or MoBo. I came to the conclusion, that with 5 kids, and as a semi-liveaboard, my family would best suited for a 65' Trawler type boat. Although, I frequently have to fight the immense temptation to look at larger boats, I refrain myself (most of the time anyway), and try to stick to the plan.

I am opting for the space and comforts that the trawler type boats have. I know that Cats, can be very spacious also, but not the same as the trawler. Plus, I just live the large spacious flybridge, and aft decks and such. But, thanks for your suggestion.

[Teknav]

An alternate solution; chartering. Fly to the nearest destination you want to visit, then charter a boat for the duration you want. No need to buy a boat, until you have chartered a few times. In the long run, it is a sensible suggestion worth considering. Mauritz

[carstenb]

You might also want to check, what, if any, skippers papers you require to skipper something that size.

If it is danish registered ,for example, it will require a yachtmaster 1st class license, once it leaves danish waters. Other countries have similar requirements

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by carstenb

You might also want to check, what, if any, skippers papers you require to skipper something that size.

If it is danish registered ,for example, it will require a yachtmaster 1st class license, once it leaves danish waters. Other countries have similar requirements

Actually an RYA Coastal Skipper would be adequate...
I've held mine since the late 80's and it allows me to command vessels up to 24metres and 80GT's...
The Offshore and Ocean Yachtmaster are only needed if you plan on going commercial..
Ocean crossings are a doddle.. its the lumpy hard bits either side that cause the hassle...