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Old 07-03-2012, 23:07   #91
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
First simple step is to travel one knot below hull speed.
I attempted to make that point earlier. Dropping one knot below hull speed, fuel consumption was reduced by half.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:52   #92
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

I respect the people who sail but as a motor cruiser my first priority on any boat is getting the engine torque/propeller design absolutely accurate for maximum performance/economy. I would suggest the same for a sail boat too for the times when they are motoring, as has already been pointed out just 1 knot below hull speed gives major savings and as everyone knows using the tides properly gives you 'free mileage'.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:49   #93
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
The plan is to have $8 to $10 a gallon fuel cost. Enjoy while you can.
The UK is already at $10 a gallon and the rest of Europe isn't far behind

Pete
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:56   #94
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
We in America had a good run for the last century now things may have hit the wall and some belt tightening may be needed. My 18/mpg car may be on its way out in the next decade and my wifes 36/mpg car on its way in. Same for boats. Just think of all the cheap live aboard motor boats this trend will generate. As long as they don't leave the dock those big ugly three story wake makers may make fine homes.
We ditched the 4x4 which managed 20mpg two years ago and now run around in a little Ford hatchback at 53 mpg (accepting UK gallons are slightly bigger than US), but your right some serious belt tightening is needed.

Thankfully the yacht manages about 1.7 LPH if we can't sail, we even had to buy 5 gallons of fuel last year
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:56   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7

The UK is already at $10 a gallon and the rest of Europe isn't far behind

Pete
Wow, that means it would cost $360 to fill the tank on my pickup. Gulp :-(

Don
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Old 10-03-2012, 23:03   #96
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

The diesel engine was originally designed to run on peanut oil, virtually every diesel can still do so, indeed all European fuel, both diesel and petrol now has a 10% bio fuel content. The next generation practical fuel cell powerplants are just around the corner and until they begin to come on stream we should be looking to multi fuels to get the maximum life out of our existing diesel engined power plants.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:13   #97
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs ?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
NOt really...

Main: 4700 AUD
Genoa: 4000 AUD
Stays'l: 1800 AUD
Storm Jib: old/used unknown cost came with boat
Spinnaker: Used, repaired, total 800AUD.

The Main has something over 35000 miles and 8 years on it. It has had one repair to the leach tabling, and will likely be replaced next year or so.

The genoa is only 4 years old and has ~ 20,000 miles on it. Still in excellent shape.

The staysail is about 6 years old and has about 32,000 miles (not used continuously, of course).

The storm jib sits in its bag...

The spinnaker was measured (IOR) in 1983, has had one major repair, and I have no idea how many miles it has flown, but has been on the boat for 8 years.

The main, genoa, staysail and spinnaker rebuild were all done by Allwood Sails in Queensland... an independent but quality loft. The main and genoa are radial Dacron, the staysail is cross-cut dacron, the kite is 1 1/2 Oznylon.

In general, I think that I am more picky about sails than many cruisers due to years of racing before going cruising.

So, you see that it doesn't take any genius to greatly undercut your proposed budget for sails.

Cheers,

Jim
Can confirm similar numbers. 42' cutter, just ordered a new main and 135% Genoa for under USD$7,000.00. US made by a very reputable loft so that is a price for a very good quality cruising sail.

Now if you're racing and going for fancy laminates and such it's a whole different ball game.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:37   #98
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

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Mark, thanks for the real world figures, 2 nmpg - 3.5 nmpg is right in the same range as all of the old single screw Taiwanese trawlers which i mentioned above which is generally accepted as being quite economical for powerboats but is not even half of what a gas guzzling motorhome gets and a far cry from what an economy car gets. It seems to me that the only possibility of getting the economy i want would be to build a long, light power trimaran with a smallish diesel, im thinking maybe 44ft x 16ft (for docking and hauling by travelift) l/b of perhaps 14:1 and perhaps 10000lbs, with a VW 1.9 TDI (1gph@1900rpm) What would it cruise at? i dunno but skinny hulls like this are not constrained to the usual hull speeds. hmmm.
Anyone have any figures for something similar?
Steve.
Prout Snowgoose Elete. LoA 37 ft ,beam 16'6 ,circa 5-6 tons Yanmar 3gm 2000 rpm gives 6.5 Knts comfortably. 3200 rpm drinks more fuel but 8Kn ish.
Note 2000 rpm is just under 1/2 gallon per hour so think 13 mpg or a little more but wind starts to affect figures with following wind and genoa got 12 Knots at 2000rpm(wanted to be very sure of tidal gate that day)
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Old 11-03-2012, 13:01   #99
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

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Originally Posted by Irish rambler View Post
The diesel engine was originally designed to run on peanut oil, virtually every diesel can still do so, .......
If you are talking about straight vegetable oil ( SVO), or waste veg. oil (WVO) only older ( pre-electronic controlled) diesels are happy running on it. However most newer diesels can run just fine on bio-diesel . As long as the injector pump seals and flexible part of fuel lines are made of Viton or similar substance there shouldnt be any issues.
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Old 12-03-2012, 14:51   #100
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

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Originally Posted by dandrews View Post
Wow, that means it would cost $360 to fill the tank on my pickup. Gulp :-(

Don
Don, driving through the countryside this afternoon I saw the 149.99 for a litre of diesel. Thats:


1.4999 GBP = 2.34646 USD

and

4.5 L = 1.18877 gal(US Liq)

Scary and I don't think other than a few wobbles that the price will ever go down again. Our generation have had the best of it

Pete
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Old 12-03-2012, 15:33   #101
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

na with fuel the only way is up from now on, peak oil was reached a few years back ( or so they say), maybe we should transfer this thread to the preppers for doomsday one, mad max here we come!

There is some debate as to whether oil is fossil or made by bacteria or adiabatic ie made by chemical reactions deep in the earth, many wells that have ran dry have been reopened a low and behold more oil pumped out, whether it is seepage or refilling no one publicly knows.

So best case scenario is that oil comes from fast acting bacteria or chemical reactions and we can pump it out at a preset rate and no more, or it is fossil and will run out fairly quickly and long before any alternative energy is on scene. If it is fossil, then the end of the current world economy and so called civilization is certainly nigh!
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Old 12-03-2012, 20:18   #102
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Re: Outrageous Fuel Costs

I'm expecting 5 to 8 nautical miles per litre in the new boat, at best cruise.... that drops to 1-2 NM/L at 20 knots. She'll average about the same fuel mileage as the van that tows her. But you give up a lot of speed to achieve that.

We're at $1.20 to $1.30 CDN per litre for both diesel and gasoline right now.... it's hard to tell how quickly it'll rise, but it's quite unlikely to come back down. I am hoping the algae farm people get their act together soon and start brewing cheap fuel out of power plant exhaust, as the technical journals keep promising (it works well at pilot-plant scale, the trouble is in finding the money to build and debug it at full scale).
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