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Old 29-07-2014, 21:28   #16
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Re: Odour filter issues

Thinwater-
Much has changed, but the science of handling ordure has not. Nor does a single thing on your list have anything to do with ordure.

What Peggy said, and what she suggests using, hasn't changed in 30 years or longer.

Tank, vent, filter, all the same. Additives? All the same. Ordure? Yup, still the same.

What she said worked then, works now.

Of course the Incinolet might be a fairly new alternative, but that requires way too much electricity for the average recreational sailboat. Not relevant here, unless someone is really dedicated to eliminating their holding tank.
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Old 29-07-2014, 21:40   #17
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Re: Odour filter issues

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Thinwater-
Much has changed, but the science of handling ordure has not.
Oh really. I think you will find that life at sanitation plants and most industrial facilities has changed quite a lot.
* New carbon types
* Improved understanding of catalytic effects
* Accumulated experience
* Enzyme treatments

I do not understand your instance. I stated very clearly that nitrate treatments and ventilation work; I tested them, many sizes and many brands. I am open to that. I also tested filters, because I was asked to, and they work too, at less cost but with greater installation complication. Not opinions in either case, but plain reproducible fact. Which is better depends on a number of factors, including operator understanding and boat geometry. For most people, the simplicity of the treatment/ventilation approach has a better chance of success (less to do wrong), but if a filter user asks for help, I'm inclined to offer help rather than criticism.
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Old 30-07-2014, 12:46   #18
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Re: Odour filter issues

Really?
You think "new carbon types" or "new enzymes" makes any difference in thirty year old recommendations that it sounds like you've never read?

Peggy's recommendations were generally along the lines of "Use an adequate tank vent" and a carbon or other filter, if it helped. Those are BASICS and that hasn't changed. If your filters are "new and improved" so what? That's no change in the recommendation to try venting first, and add a filter if necessary.

And as to new enzymes and the like, I'd still stand by her old recommendations. If the tank is adequately vented and toxic chemicals aren't pumped in, they probably won't be needed. If they can improve things, by all means use them. New and improved doesn't change any of that, the basics of what works and doesn't work are all still the same.

As to waste plant engineering....there's a big difference between the technology used in urban waste treatment plants, and what's on a boat. Got oxygenators? On a boat? Uh, no. Got separators? Got treatment ponds? Uh, no. Not on a boat.

Apples to apples, the horse apple processing routines ON A SMALL BOAT haven't changed a bit.
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Old 30-07-2014, 14:54   #19
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Re: Odour filter issues

Vent hoses and filters as well as over filling the black water tanks are age old issues causing odor throughout a boat. It has been my experience that scrimping on changing out filters, undersized and older vent hoses and watching the tank gauges on black water tanks waiting for them to indicate a full tank before pumping out are the three major causes of head related smells on boats. Address all of them, and keep on top of regular maintenance should help a lot. Additionally, salt water flush systems are notorious for creating odors if left unattended for a while (even as short a time as a few days!). Always flush with fresh water and deodorize your system before leaving your vessel for a week or so. We lived aboard for many years and those rules left us with a sweet smelling boat, always. Phil
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Old 30-07-2014, 15:42   #20
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Re: Odour filter issues

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As to waste plant engineering....there's a big difference between the technology used in urban waste treatment plants, and what's on a boat. Got oxygenators? On a boat? Uh, no. Got separators? Got treatment ponds? Uh, no. Not on a boat.
Some boats do and they are almost as effective as the vent filters. On my boat "fixing" the vent system for better flow would be a much bigger and expensive project than adding an air injection system to the tank.

But I really don't feel that the 15 seconds of odor when the head is pumped, which then blows away, is a big issue in the big picture of boating things.
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Old 30-07-2014, 18:14   #21
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Re: Odour filter issues

Sailorboy,
Your boat is bigger than 90% of the recreational sailboats in the US, so you're in the minority. Most recreational sailors would be concerned with adding another hole in the waste tank, to install the air injection line. And the extra electrical load of an air injection pump running all the time. Most would rather upgrade an existing vent line, than do anything that meant emptying out the tank to add another fitting to it. Or even installing the fitting through the tank top, inspection plate, whatever.
Besides, adding an air injection line (aka aquarium aerator) was easily done 30 years ago, that's not news. Its a great idea, but I'd rather have less moving parts and less electrical stuff.
Or an Incinolet.(G) Santa please!
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Old 30-07-2014, 18:21   #22
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Re: Odour filter issues

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Sailorboy,
Your boat is bigger than 90% of the recreational sailboats in the US, so you're in the minority. Most recreational sailors would be concerned with adding another hole in the waste tank, to install the air injection line. And the extra electrical load of an air injection pump running all the time. Most would rather upgrade an existing vent line, than do anything that meant emptying out the tank to add another fitting to it. Or even installing the fitting through the tank top, inspection plate, whatever.
Besides, adding an air injection line (aka aquarium aerator) was easily done 30 years ago, that's not news. Its a great idea, but I'd rather have less moving parts and less electrical stuff.
Or an Incinolet.(G) Santa please!

I'm more concerned about cutting new holes in my framing and hull to move the vent line than adding some little fish tank air pump and a little hole into the top of my holding tank.

But, I've done neither so it doesn't matter.

So if the odor becomes an issue to me I will probably try a vent filter first.
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Old 30-07-2014, 19:16   #23
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Re: Odour filter issues

Holes in framing? There are usually something, wire chases, gaps, no problem in plastic boats so I'm guessing yours is metal perhaps?

Likewise, a small hole in the hull has for some reason never upset me. A friend of mine used to religiously go up on deck while I cleaned out the impeller before races, because he didn't want to see a fountain of water coming in through the bottom of his boat. The "fountain" usually wasn't more than a cup or two, but holes below the water line...yeah, he got nervous about it. A vent hole in the transom with a nice fitting in it? No problem, every hole makes the boat lighter. And that's faster. And that's a GOOD THING, really it is. (VBG)

Of course, cedar buckets have gotten a lot harder to find, and a lot more expensive, over the past 30 years. But they still can solve a lot of these problems!
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