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Old 11-10-2013, 13:19   #46
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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Originally Posted by SpeedsterX View Post
That's a fair question, I read a book about a man and his wife buying a powerboat and living on it. I lived in North Carolina for summer and lived on a boat that never left the marina, I rented it like an apartment. That always got me to thinking about living on a boat. After I read the book I got the fever. I didn't know all the options and all the in and outs about doing what I wanted to do but Since I've been researching this I found that sailing would get me further with less expense.

I am now thinking that with education for a few years sailing maybe I can become comfortable enough to actually go beyond my dreams of just exploring The Caribbean and maybe if I have enough gumption I could explore the world. At this point in my research I don't see myself ever not having a motor, that just makes me have a feeling of safety and control. I mean once you start thinking about it why wouldn't you want to have the best of both worlds. That's why I've started thinking about the catamaran.

I'll be honest though I have no idea what I'll end up with in six years from now but I do know that I want to be on a boat in the tropics living a life of freedom and palm trees. I'll be 55 by the time I can even start this journey but I have six years from now to get ready and this forum and you guys have been great start.
Ok, I think you are assuming that catamarans have two engines and therefore are a better choice for you?

My last two monohulls each had reliable diesel engines that when in use varied from 3/4 to 1 gal. an hour of motoring (about 40hp). When the wind died I had the option of starting the diesel engine. Most monhulls 32 feet and longer have inboard diesel engines as a backup for sails and to get them in and out of tight spots while docking.

Until you gain sailing experience I would say that it is best for you to keep your options open. My experience on monohulls, trimarans and catamarans have always led me back to monohulls due to the motion while open ocean sailing.

Again, good luck in whatever you choose.
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Old 11-10-2013, 14:42   #47
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

Regarding Cats, there is a payment for the security of two engines. You will have double maintenance, oil changes, fluids, impellers, etc. etc. But I would not have it any other way. One of many positives, is when you are in a remote locale and one of the engines fails, and one engine is needed more than the other, (I power my water maker from one engine), you can always cannibalize from one to the other until you can fix the problem
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Old 11-10-2013, 21:22   #48
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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Ok, I think you are assuming that catamarans have two engines and therefore are a better choice for you?

My last two monohulls each had reliable diesel engines that when in use varied from 3/4 to 1 gal. an hour of motoring (about 40hp). When the wind died I had the option of starting the diesel engine. Most monhulls 32 feet and longer have inboard diesel engines as a backup for sails and to get them in and out of tight spots while docking.

Until you gain sailing experience I would say that it is best for you to keep your options open. My experience on monohulls, trimarans and catamarans have always led me back to monohulls due to the motion while open ocean sailing.

Again, good luck in whatever you choose.
No, I don't assume they all have 2 motors as I have researched many on YachtWorld.com and noticed many, if not most, have one inboard engine and I'd be fine with a single engine with a sail. You are right though as the more open water movement on a cat may be an issue. Most want a smooth ride right? lol Except I do drive a Jeep Wrangler and everyone I know but me hates the ride.

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Regarding Cats, there is a payment for the security of two engines. You will have double maintenance, oil changes, fluids, impellers, etc. etc. But I would not have it any other way. One of many positives, is when you are in a remote locale and one of the engines fails, and one engine is needed more than the other, (I power my water maker from one engine), you can always cannibalize from one to the other until you can fix the problem
Wow, never thought of that. Always have a spare everything. Do some purposely ever just use one engine so to always have a good engine to use? I like getting where I am going as fast as possible but not sure time is worth the cost of an extra engine. Thanks you guys for all this info! I am learning so much!
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:39   #49
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

my biggest fear of cats, is sitting on the bottom of the hulls. mistakes can happen.
in a mono, if you have a knockdown, you have an angry wife, in a cat, you have an emergency of epic proportions.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:10   #50
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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I like getting where I am going as fast as possible but not sure time is worth the cost of an extra engine.

You might want to ruminate with yourself on this one. "As fast as possible" is a very relative concept... but if you mean faster rather than slower, you might be talking yourself out of a sailboat, mono/cat/tri/whatever. And in fact you may be beginning to rank your desire by a performance factor, with high-speed boats further up the list, slower powerboats in the middle, sail near the bottom.

OTOH, if you mean as fast as a specific platform may allow, darn near anything will work.

Your call, of course... but your preference in this arena should likely affect your shopping.

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Old 12-10-2013, 09:20   #51
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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my biggest fear of cats, is sitting on the bottom of the hulls. mistakes can happen.
in a mono, if you have a knockdown, you have an angry wife, in a cat, you have an emergency of epic proportions.
Can you explain please. Other than more movement in open waters, I haven't heard anything else. By "epic proportions" do you mean like a fridge falling over or something worse?

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
You might want to ruminate with yourself on this one. "As fast as possible" is a very relative concept... but if you mean faster rather than slower, you might be talking yourself out of a sailboat, mono/cat/tri/whatever. And in fact you may be beginning to rank your desire by a performance factor, with high-speed boats further up the list, slower powerboats in the middle, sail near the bottom.

OTOH, if you mean as fast as a specific platform may allow, darn near anything will work.

Your call, of course... but your preference in this arena should likely affect your shopping.

-Chris
Yes, I meant the latter. I realize most if not all liveaboards go slow relative to how fast some boats can be. One of the first things someone told me was do not be in a hurry to get anywhere. I am thinking that if I were to choose, lets say, a cat, I'd want a faster one that I could get or afford. The same with I choose a trawler. I have pretty much decided a single hull sailboat is not for me. Thank you for the clarification.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:37   #52
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I look at it in a way similar to cars and motorcycle as far as yor interaction with the environment. A car is like a powerboat and sailboats are motorcycles. When you are going under sail it is a generally different experience. Cats are like Goldwings, all the comfort and speed but if you lay her on her side your not getting her back up without help. Ok, it's a lame analog.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:49   #53
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

On another topic this morning, I posted this:

I find it really interesting on the whole debate of what makes an offshore sail boat. It is unbelievable how much BS floats around and how many people have opinions but no experience based on the particular boat they happen to have an opinion on. I now believe it matters far more how the boat is prepared than what boat it is. Obviously you need a minimum standard in terms of hull integrity and rig strength and I think the Catalina 34 has that easilly. The question is can the boat and crew be prepared for offshore? I believe the answer question lies only with the skipper who does the preparation. In our case, we have had a fairly good shakedown cruise and I rate the boat highly. I've had "experienced" sailors who were aghast that I would take my family with no offshore experience in a Catalina 34 from Vancouver to San Francisco - a nasty bit of coast. And it takes some serious thought to call bull#### and say you're up to the challenge having never sailed in an ocean swell. I've also had experienced sailors who say go to the Marquesas and you'll find a lot of less capable boats than yours crewed by Europeans having the time of their lives. And you'll also find North Americans with real fancy boats with a lot of broken bits waiting for parts.


STOP for just a moment, re-read all this material, and then go buy a couple of books. Yes, books, those archaic old things no one uses anymore except sailors!

"Singlehanded Sailing" by Richard Henderson, is a pretty good starter.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:04   #54
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

Hi, Speedster,

Just so's you aren't accidentally misled, use of the wind is free, but the sails come from petrochemicals and are either a recurring expense or you pay lots more initially. Sailboats are complicated machines, largely made from non-renewable resources.

We have some friends who transitioned from a 42 foot sailboat to a similar sized motor vessel, with plans to circumnavigate again. It is quite a nice, sturdy, tough trawler type, with a massive drive shaft. Motorboat engines are generally more serious motors than sailboat diesels.

We, influenced by my husband Jim's experiences, have lived a mid-life onward lifestyle on good sailing fairly simple monohulls, fin keels and skeg rudders. Many other cruisers on other kinds of boats. Our diesel is based on a tractor engine, and parts are available at agricultural places, rather than marine, which equates savings, and is a reasonable strategy if you want to replace a clapped out engine with a reconditioned one. (Not always the best idea, but some folks do so with good results, and there are CF threads about it, too.)

Some things you'll want to experience for yourself that may lead to decisions include (a) do you like heeling?, having spray around?, feeling the wind in your face?. (Your head is a wind instrument: from the backs of your ears to your face, you get input as to wind direction and strength.) So, sailing can be intensely physical. That helps simplify your life, all you have left to concern yourself is what is the weather doing and how you are going to react to it. You may experience that as intense freedom, or it could bore you extremely. Even slow wind speeds can feel adventurous.

I'll follow a lot of the others here who suggest you get out on the water and see if what you see what turns you on, then have the courage to follow your heart. Don't be startled if some of your feelings are unexpected--it's normal when trying out new stuff. You may have a wonderful adventure ahead, including the vessel choice.

By the way, you can get out of the Great Lakes via the Chicago Sanitary Canal in season, and pretty much pick your exit point into the Gulf of Mexico.
Charts are for dreaming.


Enjoy,

Ann

Get yourself a postcard showing the beauty of where you want to cruise, and stick it on your desk. It'll pull you towards your goal. No idea why it works, but give it a go.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:32   #55
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedsterX View Post
Can you explain please. Other than more movement in open waters, I haven't heard anything else. By "epic proportions" do you mean like a fridge falling over or something worse?
.
I am talking about an upside down cat
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Old 12-10-2013, 14:20   #56
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
On another topic this morning, I posted this:

I find it really interesting on the whole debate of what makes an offshore sail boat. It is unbelievable how much BS floats around and how many people have opinions but no experience based on the particular boat they happen to have an opinion on. I now believe it matters far more how the boat is prepared than what boat it is. Obviously you need a minimum standard in terms of hull integrity and rig strength and I think the Catalina 34 has that easilly. The question is can the boat and crew be prepared for offshore? I believe the answer question lies only with the skipper who does the preparation. In our case, we have had a fairly good shakedown cruise and I rate the boat highly. I've had "experienced" sailors who were aghast that I would take my family with no offshore experience in a Catalina 34 from Vancouver to San Francisco - a nasty bit of coast. And it takes some serious thought to call bull#### and say you're up to the challenge having never sailed in an ocean swell. I've also had experienced sailors who say go to the Marquesas and you'll find a lot of less capable boats than yours crewed by Europeans having the time of their lives. And you'll also find North Americans with real fancy boats with a lot of broken bits waiting for parts.


STOP for just a moment, re-read all this material, and then go buy a couple of books. Yes, books, those archaic old things no one uses anymore except sailors!

"Singlehanded Sailing" by Richard Henderson, is a pretty good starter.
Oh, I am definitely going to have a library that I have read before I am ready to buy or live the life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hi, Speedster,

Just so's you aren't accidentally misled, use of the wind is free, but the sails come from petrochemicals and are either a recurring expense or you pay lots more initially. Sailboats are complicated machines, largely made from non-renewable resources.

We have some friends who transitioned from a 42 foot sailboat to a similar sized motor vessel, with plans to circumnavigate again. It is quite a nice, sturdy, tough trawler type, with a massive drive shaft. Motorboat engines are generally more serious motors than sailboat diesels.

We, influenced by my husband Jim's experiences, have lived a mid-life onward lifestyle on good sailing fairly simple monohulls, fin keels and skeg rudders. Many other cruisers on other kinds of boats. Our diesel is based on a tractor engine, and parts are available at agricultural places, rather than marine, which equates savings, and is a reasonable strategy if you want to replace a clapped out engine with a reconditioned one. (Not always the best idea, but some folks do so with good results, and there are CF threads about it, too.)

Some things you'll want to experience for yourself that may lead to decisions include (a) do you like heeling?, having spray around?, feeling the wind in your face?. (Your head is a wind instrument: from the backs of your ears to your face, you get input as to wind direction and strength.) So, sailing can be intensely physical. That helps simplify your life, all you have left to concern yourself is what is the weather doing and how you are going to react to it. You may experience that as intense freedom, or it could bore you extremely. Even slow wind speeds can feel adventurous.

I'll follow a lot of the others here who suggest you get out on the water and see if what you see what turns you on, then have the courage to follow your heart. Don't be startled if some of your feelings are unexpected--it's normal when trying out new stuff. You may have a wonderful adventure ahead, including the vessel choice.

By the way, you can get out of the Great Lakes via the Chicago Sanitary Canal in season, and pretty much pick your exit point into the Gulf of Mexico.
Charts are for dreaming.


Enjoy,

Ann

Get yourself a postcard showing the beauty of where you want to cruise, and stick it on your desk. It'll pull you towards your goal. No idea why it works, but give it a go.
Don't think I would be crazy about heeling but who knows. Guess I'll find out when I learn to sail. I am very close to Lake Michigan so that may be my starting point next spring.

The post card thing? Yea lol I have one in about every room in my house including little mementos of all my Bahama cruises.

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I am talking about an upside down cat
DOH!
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Old 12-10-2013, 14:44   #57
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

Hi, again, Speedster,

Planning to singlehand adds a layer of complexity, especially if you're going on longish voyages. There is the freedom of having no one else to blame for mistakes, but you have a responsibility to keep watch, which makes singlehanding inherently difficult because of your need to manage your sleep so that you are not exhausted and thinking poorly at the end of the journey when you need to make landfall, find safe anchorage. There was another thread on CF within the last 3 or 4 weeks about that, and there are many on watch standing.

Good on your pix, mate!
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Old 12-10-2013, 16:47   #58
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Quote:
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I look at it in a way similar to cars and motorcycle as far as yor interaction with the environment. A car is like a powerboat and sailboats are motorcycles. When you are going under sail it is a generally different experience. Cats are like Goldwings, all the comfort and speed but if you lay her on her side your not getting her back up without help. Ok, it's a lame analog.
I thought it was pretty good!
Gotta say if you turtle a cat, you have done something really wrong. But you also can't sink on cat, we don't have a kazillllion pounds of ballast.
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Old 13-10-2013, 08:50   #59
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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Hi, again, Speedster,

Planning to singlehand adds a layer of complexity, especially if you're going on longish voyages. There is the freedom of having no one else to blame for mistakes, but you have a responsibility to keep watch, which makes singlehanding inherently difficult because of your need to manage your sleep so that you are not exhausted and thinking poorly at the end of the journey when you need to make landfall, find safe anchorage. There was another thread on CF within the last 3 or 4 weeks about that, and there are many on watch standing.

Good on your pix, mate!
Hi Ann! I do not plan to be singlehanded. I plan on my lovely lady to be with me,,, as soon as I talk her into this great lifestyle.
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Old 13-10-2013, 09:03   #60
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Re: Newbie with questions, I have a lot to learn, I know.

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Hi Ann! I do not plan to be singlehanded. I plan on my lovely lady to be with me,,, as soon as I talk her into this great lifestyle.
Hi, Speedster,

It's a lot easier if you have a partner.

You're old enough to know this, so pls forgive me for offering advice, but it is a really good idea for you to everything you can to make it super fun for your good lady to get involved with sailing. I hope you know her well enough to know how to actualize that.

Jim and I were fortunate that I had already been "broken in" as a beginning sailor, so he didn't have to bring me along as crew starting from dead zero. That must be a somewhat daunting challenge.

I guess first, you're going to have to see if you like sailing, or just being on the water... Then some real hard looks at the money situation. Assume ten per cent per annum increase in cruising costs.

Ann
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