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Old 04-07-2016, 16:08   #91
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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That may be true, but look what they're fighting against. The nanny state. Sometimes it needs to be said, and companies like that say it. Just because they got paid doesn't automatically make it a lie.

There will always be those who eat what they want and do what they want and leave others alone. But there are others who always seem to want to restrict what other people can eat, drink, own, shoot, drive, buy, enjoy. Media companies like that speak up about your shrinking freedoms.

Most people don't notice the creeping gov't intrusion into their lives until they come for their toys. By then, it's too late. What they thought was a democracy is now a totalitarian socialist state, and they didn't even notice it happening.
ahhh now I'm starting to see through what your real concerns are.

You really have absolutely no idea of the dangers of poaching to 'those who eat what they want and do what they want and leave others alone'. You think poachers are all the little people just feeding their families.

Many of the worlds fish stocks are not in danger because of villagers minding their own business and feeding their families or their villages. They are in danger from big business who don't give a damn about anyone else but the cash they bring in for their creditors. That's what happened in Somalia and that's why we have Somalian pirates being a threat to crusiers.
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:27   #92
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

This is for 100 islands, in case he revisits. He ended his post with this:
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The preservation of our planet and it's life must be paramount.
Okay, then, why not stop the lucrative harvesting of krill, that's really basic to the food chain, and I personally know someone who uses krill oil, deeming their arthritis to be helped by it and therefore does it in spite of knowing krill fishing is a d--n fool thing. Plus, without krill, the whales that eat it will disappear from the seas of the world, and every beast in the sea that depends on the ones lower down.

Humanity has been troubled by these selfish kinds of activities forever, seems unlikely to me to change, too. The behavior is sometimes referred to as the "tragedy of the commons." Jared Diamond has a good description of it in his book, "Collapse." Those who warn tend to be ignored. ...and seem to have been, at least since the ancient Greeks (see the legend of Cassandra, who was doomed to propphesy accurately and have them ignored.) If they knew to write about it, it must have been around a lot longer.

This train of thought runs to a pretty bleak end.

But seriously, if you care about our planet and its life forms, stopping the krill fishery is far more important than even stopping whaling.

In our discussions, it is wise to remember that there is no world government, only international agreements. Norwegian, etc. whaling is legal, hence not actually poaching, as some here have alleged.

Rustic Charm, one place you get people's danders up in discussions such as this is to denigrate other countries' courts, while thinking your own nation's is correct. Unfortunately, people feel nationistically, but feeling so doesn't make it so. The US Supreme Court, "quack?" that was rude.

Ann
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:31   #93
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

What does Somalian pirates have to do with whaling? Or is it big business? Or what? I'm sure the Somalians were thinking of the cash when they hijack a vessel. I think they gave up fishing for the easy millions from the cargo vessels or tankers or cruisers.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:02   #94
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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What does Somalian pirates have to do with whaling? Or is it big business? Or what? I'm sure the Somalians were thinking of the cash when they hijack a vessel. I think they gave up fishing for the easy millions from the cargo vessels or tankers or cruisers.
Somalian pirates have nothing to do with Whaling! who on earth said they did?

No one but you can claim that Somalian's resort to piracy as 'big business'. Read a little of the history of Somalia and you will find that they had turned to piracy out of desperation after their fishing grounds were decimated. And I also don't think anyone thinks (other than you) that somalian piracy is 'easy millions'.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:10   #95
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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What does Somalian pirates have to do with whaling? Or is it big business? Or what? I'm sure the Somalians were thinking of the cash when they hijack a vessel. I think they gave up fishing for the easy millions from the cargo vessels or tankers or cruisers.

Unfortunately over fishing has been cited as a cause for the Somalian pirate issue. Collapse of the fishries leading to poverty and creating a ripe enviornment for the criminals etc. to move in and exploit. Many 3rd world countries lack the reasources to enfore the 200 mile economic exclusion zone. Many 1st world country companies exploit this by building flag of conviance large comercial fishing vessels and having at it.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:14   #96
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
This is for 100 islands, in case he revisits. He ended his post with this:

Okay, then, why not stop the lucrative harvesting of krill, that's really basic to the food chain, and I personally know someone who uses krill oil, deeming their arthritis to be helped by it and therefore does it in spite of knowing krill fishing is a d--n fool thing. Plus, without krill, the whales that eat it will disappear from the seas of the world, and every beast in the sea that depends on the ones lower down.

Humanity has been troubled by these selfish kinds of activities forever, seems unlikely to me to change, too. (actually Ann, it's only been since the 20th Century) The behavior is sometimes referred to as the "tragedy of the commons." Jared Diamond has a good description of it in his book, "Collapse." Those who warn tend to be ignored. ...and seem to have been, at least since the ancient Greeks (see the legend of Cassandra, who was doomed to propphesy accurately and have them ignored.) If they knew to write about it, it must have been around a lot longer.

This train of thought runs to a pretty bleak end.

But seriously, if you care about our planet and its life forms, stopping the krill fishery is far more important than even stopping whaling.

(as far as I know Krill fishing is legal and it's also not in threat, 'yet'. Give it time though and as some multi corporation realises the money they can make then yes, Krill fishing may become a problem).

In our discussions, it is wise to remember that there is no world government, only international agreements. Norwegian, etc. whaling is legal, hence not actually poaching, as some here have alleged.

You either continue to miss the point here, or deliberately don't want to acknowledge it. The IWC has banned whaling for commercial purposes. That's not debateable. Some nations can legally hunt whales for cultural and heritage purpose. That's not debateable. But your continued claim that whaling for commercial value is not illegal is simply FALSE. As for Japan's whaling, it too has been found, by the International Court of Justice to be 'commercial' and thus 'ILLEGAL'.

Rustic Charm, one place you get people's danders up in discussions such as this is to denigrate other countries' courts, while thinking your own nation's is correct. Unfortunately, people feel nationistically, but feeling so doesn't make it so. The US Supreme Court, "quack?" that was rude.

Ann
Ann, as for your last pararaph you write as if I have criticised the US court many times before ("one place you get people's danders up") to which I'll ask when have I stated this before, or did you just make it up?

If you read the article previously supplied by Stu you would see I'm not the only one that believes it was a bad decision. Including judges that believe it was a bad decison. And then Sea Shepherd was denied the ability to appeal it.

And as for your claim that I somehow 'uphold' our own courts? WHEN did I do this, or did you just make this up too? The INternational Court of Justice, is just that, it's International and it's not in Australia.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:17   #97
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

No, I thought you implied the big business drove them to piracy. Do you really believe the fishing got bad so they turned to hijacking ship? How many pound of fish do need to catch to make a million dollars? One tanker or container ship and cha ching 4 million dollars. No smelly bait, or fish guts to deal with and no one to stop you.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:20   #98
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

It's time to sit back watch the fireworks and have another beer. Happy Fouth!
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:26   #99
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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No, I thought you implied the big business drove them to piracy. Do you really believe the fishing got bad so they turned to hijacking ship? How many pound of fish do need to catch to make a million dollars? One tanker or container ship and cha ching 4 million dollars. No smelly bait, or fish guts to deal with and no one to stop you.
Yes, the fishing got bad and the impacts of war, led to many turning to piracy.. YES. That's what happened.

It's what happens when the west get involved in foreign politics and then step back when it turns to a mess and the impovished peoples are left to deal with war lords and corrupt governments and sometimes no governments.

Contrary to the insular thoughts of many in the West, particulary in Australia at the moment, the world is a small place. What happends on the other side of the world in a small nation can have quite an impact on my desire to cruise in this side of the world. It's just a matter of time and perspective.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:30   #100
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

Krill fishing is a problem but like most offshore problems people will not realise that until they are all gone... like the cod ... never to recover ...

'The 2011 Antarctic harvest had increased to 150,000–180,000 tons, growing by 40% over 2009. The increase was driven by krill's use in the production of fish-meal in the aquaculture industry and in dietary and medical products. China entered the market in 2011 and was expected to rapidly increase its participation' from wiki

Krill... major part of the blue whales' diet.. OK lets just turn it all into fishmeal.

Same same over fishing by Peruvians and the death of all the seabirds that relied on the fish that were over fished... I think that fishery ( sardines by another name??) was legal too....
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:35   #101
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

Sounds like a nice excuse, they traded they fishing rods for AK's. I think they are tribes ruled by warlords and have been warring for decades. I understand they raid Kenya to take hostages. It's organized crime.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:37   #102
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Krill fishing is a problem but like most offshore problems people will not realise that untile they are all gone... like the cod ... never to recover ...

'The 2011 Antarctic harvest had increased to 150,000180,000 tons, growing by 40% over 2009. The increase was driven by krill's use in the production of fish-meal in the aquaculture industry and in dietary and medical products. China entered the market in 2011 and was expected to rapidly increase its participation' from wiki

Krill... major part of the blue whales' diet.. OK lets just turn it all into fishmeal.

Same same over fishing by Peruvians and the death of all the seabirds that relied on the fish that were over fished... I think that fishery ( sardines by another name??) was legal too....
I remember when Orange Roughy was found in Bass Strait for the first time in huge numbers. I remember the fishers maintaining it wouldn't be possible to wipe them out they were in such big numbers. And then I also remember in just a few years a real panic when scientists realised how quickly they were wiping them out. Led to a ten year ban to try to save the stocks. Last year after a ban of ten years, stocks have replentished to what they believe is only now sustainable with strict regulation.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:38   #103
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Sounds like a nice excuse, they traded they fishing rods for AK's. I think they are tribes ruled by warlords and have been warring for decades. I understand they raid Kenya to take hostages. It's organized crime.
ok, you believe what you want to believe. The rest of us can simply research the facts rather than what we 'think' is going on. Happy sailing.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:44   #104
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

Krill fishing, never thought about it. My doctor had me try it but it didn't do anything for me. I actually thought krill would be farmed in a tank.
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Old 04-07-2016, 18:02   #105
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

Researching the facts ? Where do you get your empricial data? Or is it just a consensus of like minded people with an agenda. It's a big step to go from fishing to killing people, at least for me. An as for blaming the West, history has a lot of unintended consequences, but as the East rises you will see the carnage
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