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Old 04-07-2016, 08:18   #76
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
They have managed to obtain permission for their hunts through the tit for tat of diplomatic negotiations and returned favours. I don't think anyone for a second believes it's truly scientific research, or indeed research of any kind; it is simply legitimized poaching, much like countries who knowingly over fish stocks but are given such quotas under international treaties.

I laud the goals of such groups but I believe some of their leaders are more interested in furthering their own image than the welfare of the animals they are trying to protect.



That is the way I would describe too, and I consider myself an expert in such aesthetic matters.


Agreed, the research loophole is one that never should have been opened to begin with. No one believes it and they aren't even trying to pretend it is any more, but it's still there.

I'd like to see the whaling stopped legally and the loophole closed. Attacking fishing vessels at sea and endangering people's lives without any authority from any gov't or sanctioning body is the very definition of piracy. The SS (reminiscent of the previous group with the same initials) have repeatedly been told to stop by the gov'ts of Norway, Japan, the US, Australia and still they persist in risking people's lives.

It's high time the US gov't quit jerking around and just throw that talking whale into jail.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:24   #77
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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I knew Watson in his early days in Vancouver... This analysis of what makes him tick...is pretty accurate.
https://www.activistfacts.com/organi...ation-society/
Pelagic, it's an interesting read but 'accurate' is a bit rediculous. And I honestly cannot see Paul Watson eating hamburgers , nor can I believe PETA, an organisation I personally despise, advocating violence. I'm well aware Paul Watson is not a saint, but this is a silly article and it's bias is obvious. It may well had been written by Japanese whalers.

I do hold personal fears as to how far SS will go when they have the means. But the best way governments can avoid that is by the very governments themselves getting off their backsides and policing their own poaching laws. Sea shepherds advises they would then step aside and focus their attentions elsewhere.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:27   #78
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Interesting article. I didn't see an author so I did some research about the website which is run by "The Center For Organizational Research And Eductation" here's what I found-

"The Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) (formerly called the "Guest Choice Network (GCN)") is a front group run by Rick Berman's PR firm Berman & Co. for the restaurant, alcohol, tobacco and other industries. It changed its name to the Center for Organizational Research and Education in early 2014.[1] It runs media campaigns that oppose the efforts of scientists, doctors, health advocates, animal advocates, environmentalists and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, calling them "the Nanny Culture -- the growing fraternity of food cops, health care enforcers, anti-meat activists, and meddling bureaucrats who 'know what's best for you.'"

Center for Consumer Freedom - SourceWatch

No denying that a PR firm that fronts for the tobacco industry is a credible source(insert sarcasm here) and therefor must know what is best for our environment!
well this shines that article in a new light. That's exactly what it reads like. Paid for. Cash for comment.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:35   #79
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Agreed, the research loophole is one that never should have been opened to begin with. No one believes it and they aren't even trying to pretend it is any more, but it's still there.

I'd like to see the whaling stopped legally and the loophole closed. Attacking fishing vessels at sea and endangering people's lives without any authority from any gov't or sanctioning body is the very definition of piracy. The SS (reminiscent of the previous group with the same initials) have repeatedly been told to stop by the gov'ts of Norway, Japan, the US, Australia and still they persist in risking people's lives.

It's high time the US gov't quit jerking around and just throw that talking whale into jail.
So you don't recognise the courts jurisdiction that found the Japanese whaling was NOT in keeping with the IWC 'loophole' ?

This is what I fail to understand from supporters of poachers like yourself. And I'm not just referring to 'whaling', nor the fact that at least two countries whaling have rejected the IWC altogether. But also the stateless poaching vessels of fish like Blue Thunder vessel.

It seems you have no problem with such organised poaching vessels taking what ever they want from where ever they want with no official authority policing them.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:04   #80
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
well this shines that article in a new light. That's exactly what it reads like. Paid for. Cash for comment.
Thanks Delancey.... I did not research the source.... Only commented on how close it came to analyzing Watson from my own experiences with him on the Vancouver waterfront.

It's not unusual for competing interests to get professional PR support, so there is no irony or sarcasm in that

I abhor whaling and overfishing, but having Watson and his self serving tactics, represent my point of view, is equally abhorrent
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:34   #81
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Pelagic, it's an interesting read but 'accurate' is a bit rediculous. And I honestly cannot see Paul Watson eating hamburgers , nor can I believe PETA, an organisation I personally despise, advocating violence. I'm well aware Paul Watson is not a saint, but this is a silly article and it's bias is obvious. It may well had been written by Japanese whalers.

I do hold personal fears as to how far SS will go when they have the means. But the best way governments can avoid that is by the very governments themselves getting off their backsides and policing their own poaching laws. Sea shepherds advises they would then step aside and focus their attentions elsewhere.
On whom?


Cruisers? Cruise ships? Power boaters?
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:41   #82
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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So you don't recognise the courts jurisdiction that found the Japanese whaling was NOT in keeping with the IWC 'loophole' ?

This is what I fail to understand from supporters of poachers like yourself. And I'm not just referring to 'whaling', nor the fact that at least two countries whaling have rejected the IWC altogether. But also the stateless poaching vessels of fish like Blue Thunder vessel.

It seems you have no problem with such organised poaching vessels taking what ever they want from where ever they want with no official authority policing them.

How many times do I have to post it.

Here again, just for you, the THIRD time, I will post:

I'd like to see the whaling stopped legally and the loophole closed.

Do you see it this time? Comprehend it this time? What do you think it means? It's not a coded message, it's in plain english.

See where the problem lies? You deny things, you ignore things, you twist things...

it's ridiculous. Is your real name Paul Watson? That would certainly explain it all.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:49   #83
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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well this shines that article in a new light. That's exactly what it reads like. Paid for. Cash for comment.
That may be true, but look what they're fighting against. The nanny state. Sometimes it needs to be said, and companies like that say it. Just because they got paid doesn't automatically make it a lie.

There will always be those who eat what they want and do what they want and leave others alone. But there are others who always seem to want to restrict what other people can eat, drink, own, shoot, drive, buy, enjoy. Media companies like that speak up about your shrinking freedoms.

Most people don't notice the creeping gov't intrusion into their lives until they come for their toys. By then, it's too late. What they thought was a democracy is now a totalitarian socialist state, and they didn't even notice it happening.
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Old 04-07-2016, 13:48   #84
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Agreed, the research loophole is one that never should have been opened to begin with. No one believes it and they aren't even trying to pretend it is any more, but it's still there.

I'd like to see the whaling stopped legally and the loophole closed. Attacking fishing vessels at sea and endangering people's lives without any authority from any gov't or sanctioning body is the very definition of piracy. The SS (reminiscent of the previous group with the same initials) have repeatedly been told to stop by the gov'ts of Norway, Japan, the US, Australia and still they persist in risking people's lives.

It's high time the US gov't quit jerking around and just throw that talking whale into jail.
I'm with you. Piracy, vigilantism, whatever you want to call it is (IMO) not healthy and show a breakdown in law enforcement, be it local or international. Enforcement of laws and regulations should be in the hands of the those charged with doing so and given the means to do so (which usually isn't the case!) and the politicians, diplomats and vigilantes should stay the hell away. My 2 cents. I would hope that nations learn from this and act aggressively on it but they tend not to and folks like SS try to fill that void, for whatever reason. I certainly understand the anger of those that do.
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Old 04-07-2016, 14:36   #85
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

I found this thread very informative, it made me investigate Sea Sheppard. Disturbed to found out they are a 501(3) C, a charity and a tax deduction for donors. Amazing!
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Old 04-07-2016, 14:38   #86
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

Can't help but see the irony in this boat being funded by the same nation to build the largest commercial fishing vessels to date operating in some of the most questionable fisheries.
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Old 04-07-2016, 15:05   #87
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Can't help but see the irony in this boat being funded by the same nation to build the largest commercial fishing vessels to date operating in some of the most questionable fisheries.
Ed Zakery.....

The Netherlands is involved in this fishery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_jack_mackerel

Read and weep,

and, SS supporters, enjoy your nice bit of farmed salmon this evening.... but watch out for the antibiotics....
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Old 04-07-2016, 15:34   #88
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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How many times do I have to post it.

Here again, just for you, the THIRD time, I will post:

I'd like to see the whaling stopped legally and the loophole closed.

Do you see it this time? Comprehend it this time? What do you think it means? It's not a coded message, it's in plain english.

See where the problem lies? You deny things, you ignore things, you twist things...

it's ridiculous. Is your real name Paul Watson? That would certainly explain it all.
Cut it out I'm not being rude to you, putting you down, being condescending in the slightest. So stop being like that to me! be professional and adult about your comments.

I'm calling you a supporter of poaching because you ignore the INternational Court of Justice that had concluded what we all already know, that Japan was not operating under a 'loophole', but were and are in fact 'poachers'. Your supporting them in continuing to suggest they are legally whaling and yet doing something you simply don't like. Your calling on nothing to be done about their continued illegal activities and then you call for persecuting of the only organisation doing something to stop them.

Understand this Socaldmax - the legal avenue in the International courts was DONE and completed. It found against the Japanese and they have decided to ignore it..
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Old 04-07-2016, 15:34   #89
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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Can't help but see the irony in this boat being funded by the same nation to build the largest commercial fishing vessels to date operating in some of the most questionable fisheries.
Yeah, I thought that too
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Old 04-07-2016, 15:57   #90
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Re: New Ocean Warrior is a Beauty

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On whom?

Cruisers? Cruise ships? Power boaters?
Patagonian Toothfish poachers seem to be the next highest priority on the list, but also illegal bluefin tuna poachers and the many thousands of illegal shark fin fishers.

The vessel Kunlun which operates in the southern ocean with the banned 25km long gill nets. Last year the New Zealand Navy attempted to intercept Kunlun and they just ignored the Navy ship and that was that.

The Thunder, was the vessel sea shepherd chased half way around the world last year before the skipper skuttled it. He's now in prison. Interestingly enough when SS warned ahead that the vessel was heading to Mozambique, that government issued an arrest warrant for it. The skipper sunk the vessel rather than taking action. big tick for Mozambique.

Then there is the illegal Tiwanese poachers Shin Jyi Chyuu which the little nations of Palau struggles to police without the resources to do so whilst the rest of the third world that has the capabilities does nothing.

The really interesting thing is that Sea Shephered has helped governments rid the world of a number of poaching vessels, by chasing them for extended periods of time until local authorities can take over and take legal action. Like for example the 'bandit 6', which were six vessels operating in the Southern Oceans up until 2015 when the last one was dealt with by Indonesian authorities and blown up by Indonesian authorities.

Does this answer your question on 'whom'?

I think the problem with many of you that are such ardanant anti vigilantism is that you really have absolutely no idea of what the problem is. Claims as naive as 'need to take action in the courts' is just so lacking in logic when most of the problem with 'poaching' is that it's ILLEGAL already. You can't fight illegal activity in the courts against stateless poachers. And even with the Japanesse, the COURTS has found they too have been acting illegally. Something the rest of the world already new. So, what courts do we take these stateless, illegal poachers, including the Japanese too?
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