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Old 12-06-2014, 15:29   #46
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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GG,

Your systems and possible upgrades will depend on your intended usage of your boat. If you never anchor out, save your money and just use the 50 amp service at the marina.

If you plan on a lot of time in anchorages, then system upgrades to minimized AC gen set run time would be worthwhile. The inverter that rw58ph is using (3000 watts) is capable of running any galley appliances without having to run the gen set. House battery bank size will determine how often you will need to run the gen set to charge the bank. Most people run the gen set for hot water (heat exchanger and/or electric element). If your refrigerator doesn't have auto defrost or at least can be switched off, the inverter will power it just fine, keep an eye on battery status. If your boat has both DC and AC incandescent lights, replace all the bulbs with LED.
Thanks for the info Bob. I would like to do some of both, anchoring and docking. My biggest concern with anchoring and the generators is the noise. I can stand the generator running some of the time, as I know that it is the nature of the beast, but honestly think it might drive me a bit crazy if I had to listen to it 24/7. I have a VERY low tolerance for loud noise
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Old 12-06-2014, 15:42   #47
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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Thanks for the info Bob. I would like to do some of both, anchoring and docking. My biggest concern with anchoring and the generators is the noise. I can stand the generator running some of the time, as I know that it is the nature of the beast, but honestly think it might drive me a bit crazy if I had to listen to it 24/7. I have a VERY low tolerance for loud noise
Does your new boat have an inverter? What size? How large is your house bank batteries?

I'm with you, the constant drone 24/7 of one of those 20 kw gen sets would be annoying.
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Old 12-06-2014, 15:50   #48
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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Does your new boat have an inverter? What size? How large is your house bank batteries?

I'm with you, the constant drone 24/7 of one of those 20 kw gen sets would be annoying.
No, initially I said that it did, but I was confusing the battery charger with the inverter.
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Old 12-06-2014, 16:12   #49
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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No, initially I said that it did, but I was confusing the battery charger with the inverter.
OK then, we have a starting point. Since this boat isn't going to be your long term boat and if you think you might only be anchoring out maybe 3 weeks per year for the couple of years before your next boat, I would just use the gen set. It won't be loud and the fuel burn will be less than the investment in a big house bank and inverter.

If your next boat is gong to be used a lot on the hook, then with planning you can limit your gen set run time to a couple of hours per day or if you have suitable areas for solar panels, no run time.

I have experience in this subject, and will be happy to spec things out for that next boat. Just your choice for a refrigerator will make a big difference on your energy needs. Large home style with through the door ice and water along with auto defrost will consume 4~6 kwhr per day. A large Sun Frost 19 cubic foot refrigerator will consume 0.75 kwhr per day. The light output in lumens of a 75 watt incandescent bulb can be matched with a 7 watt LED bulb.
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Old 12-06-2014, 16:19   #50
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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OK then, we have a starting point. Since this boat isn't going to be your long term boat and if you think you might only be anchoring out maybe 3 weeks per year for the couple of years before your next boat, I would just use the gen set. It won't be loud and the fuel burn will be less than the investment in a big house bank and inverter.

If your next boat is gong to be used a lot on the hook, then with planning you can limit your gen set run time to a couple of hours per day or if you have suitable areas for solar panels, no run time.

I have experience in this subject, and will be happy to spec things out for that next boat. Just your choice for a refrigerator will make a big difference on your energy needs. Large home style with through the door ice and water along with auto defrost will consume 4~6 kwhr per day. A large Sun Frost 19 cubic foot refrigerator will consume 0.75 kwhr per day. The light output in lumens of a 100 watt incandescent bulb can be matched with a 7 watt LED bulb.
Would it be worth it if I was on the hook, let's say 6 weeks, just this summer to start with?

Think it's feasible to get a deep freezer on the boat?

Think I would be better off installing solar panels?
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Old 12-06-2014, 16:35   #51
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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Would it be worth it if I was on the hook, let's say 6 weeks, just this summer to start with?

Think it's feasible to get a deep freezer on the boat?

Think I would be better off installing solar panels?
It is just a matter of math. For a single 20 kw gen set running an average of 1/4 load will consume 0.6 gallons per hour. Diesel in the Bahamas is $6.00 per gallon so 0.6 X 24 X 42 days (6 weeks) X 6 = $3600 in fuel.

I like my red meats, so a separate freezer is what I would have just because meat quality and prices are way better in Florida than the islands.

Since you don't have an inverter and large house bank, I wouldn't bother with solar unless you plan on a lot more time on the hook. All this can be done on your next boat, but for your short usage of this boat the ROI wouldn't re-coop the initial outlay.
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Old 13-06-2014, 05:49   #52
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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Would it be worth it if I was on the hook, let's say 6 weeks, just this summer to start with?

Think it's feasible to get a deep freezer on the boat?

Think I would be better off installing solar panels?

This may well fall into the “use what you’ve got, for a while” category, while you spend some time learning your current capabilities.

You may find you can already anchor with only a 2-hour morning and evening genset schedule, directly running AC appliances (stovetop? microwave? oven? TV?) and DC appliances (fridges? freezer?), recharging batteries, etc. Or you may find you can easily get to that state with the (relatively) easy addition of a few batteries here and there. Or you may learn you need to run the genset 24/7.

And then when you learn your actual anchoring frequency -- vs. docking (with shorepower) -- that comes into the equation, too.

You have options… but each of those comes with acquisition and installation costs… and you may find some costs take too long to amortize, relative to the expected benefit.

Learning the current baseline will help you make better decisions.

-Chris
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Old 13-06-2014, 08:14   #53
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
Would it be worth it if I was on the hook, let's say 6 weeks, just this summer to start with?

Think it's feasible to get a deep freezer on the boat?

Think I would be better off installing solar panels?
You need an inverter to be a full time live aboard! To convert DC power to AC when the dock power is out, so you do not need to run the gen set all the time. Solar panels are a waste for a large size boat like yours. Better to have a small secondary sound proof gen set. 3000 watt inverters cost about 1 grand, which is boat change in the larger picture.

Spend your money and time on the larger expensive and high amp items. Heat, hot water, refrigeration, sanitation. Lastly give your self a week test run by turning off the dock power, and water. I still give you a 50% chance the first year even if you get the boat prepared. You will need between 30 and 50 grand to throw at it. Webasto installed 20 to 30 grand, canvas 5 to 10 grand, and misc stuff 5 to 10 grand. Get your stern home and start preparing if you are going to winter in Bosten.

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Old 13-06-2014, 09:19   #54
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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You need an inverter to be a full time live aboard! To convert DC power to AC when the dock power is out, so you do not need to run the gen set all the time. Solar panels are a waste for a large size boat like yours. Better to have a small secondary sound proof gen set. 3000 watt inverters cost about 1 grand, which is boat change in the larger picture.

Spend your money and time on the larger expensive and high amp items. Heat, hot water, refrigeration, sanitation. Lastly give your self a week test run by turning off the dock power, and water. I still give you a 50% chance the first year even if you get the boat prepared. You will need between 30 and 50 grand to throw at it. Webasto installed 20 to 30 grand, canvas 5 to 10 grand, and misc stuff 5 to 10 grand. Get your stern home and start preparing if you are going to winter in Bosten.
Phil,
The marinas here in Boston, or at least the ones that I looked at keep the power on year round They only shut off the water to the docks, so you have to use a hose to the dockmasters office building.

The yard that I spoke to said that I would be looking at about 10 grand for a good sized inverter. But, when I arrive in Florida to have the risers done, I am going to talk to someone there as well.
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Old 13-06-2014, 09:42   #55
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

You should be able to get a 3KW inverter for about $1K plus installation.
Going larger will give you more power but less run time. 3KW will allow you to make coffee, toast, run a microwave, operate an icemaker, watch TV and use the internet, etc without running the genny. Anything bigger like AC, domestic (110V) frig, watermaker or electric stove will need the genny. Just to be clear, a single 8D battery (240 amphr capacity) will give only 120 amphr output before recharging (50% capacity). This translates into only approx. 12 amphrs at 110V, so you could run a small domestic frig (3 amps x 110V) for just 4 hours from a single 8D before recharging. If you have a big house bank simply multiply by the number of 8D batteries. No point in buying a big inverter unless you have big house bank, even then the economics may not make sense given your situation.
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Old 13-06-2014, 09:51   #56
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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You should be able to get a 3KW inverter for about $1K plus installation.
Going larger will give you more power but less run time. 3KW will allow you to make coffee, toast, run a microwave, operate an icemaker, watch TV and use the internet, etc without running the genny. Anything bigger like AC, domestic (110V) frig, watermaker or electric stove will need the genny. Just to be clear, a single 8D battery (240 amphr capacity) will give only 120 amphr output before recharging (50% capacity). This translates into only approx. 12 amphrs at 110V, so you could run a small domestic frig (3 amps x 110V) for just 4 hours from a single 8D before recharging. If you have a big house bank simply multiply by the number of 8D batteries. No point in buying a big inverter unless you have big house bank, even then the economics may not make sense given your situation.
The 10 grand included an additional dedicated battery bank. I don't mind running the genny temporarily to cook or whatever, but I want to run it a few hours then shut it off, and definitely shut it off at night. I would need a large refrigerator, probably the watermaker (unless they don't need to run 24/7) and the tv.
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Old 13-06-2014, 11:24   #57
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

10 grand? You do not need a dedicated battery bank for the inverter, just use the present house bank and maybe added a couple of 8-D batteries. 8-D batteries run 2 to 3 hundred a piece. Inverter is 1 to 2 grand. The real nut to crack is not using up the battery amps but replacing, charging back the amps.

Yaw! So do the marinas in the Puget Sound until the whole area/marine/dock goes out. If its an old marina as they increase the live a boards it may not have enough total amps to handle the total dock/marina. Everett had to rewire our dock as it did not have enough power as they added live a boards and larger boats. The first marina we moored did not have enough total amps for the marina and the our dock in Everett blew the dock main panel. So you do not know what you can or can not rely on.

If you get a water maker which you might not need, get at least 800+ gallons per day, 30 gallons per hours, so you only have to run when you run the gen set during the day. 8 to 10 hours is 240 to 300 gallons per day. The Eagle had a water make but they are a PITA and high mainenance, best to conserve water when needed.
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Old 13-06-2014, 11:52   #58
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

Totally agree about the PITA watermaker!! Best to take sea showers and conserve when not at the dock!! Also, your WM will only run effectively in clean water. If you try to run it in the ICW or the Chesapeake, for example, you will be plugging filters by the hour!! Great in the Bahamas, though!!!
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Old 13-06-2014, 12:32   #59
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

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You need an inverter to be a full time live aboard! To convert DC power to AC when the dock power is out, so you do not need to run the gen set all the time.

Except for a few quick blips over the last 9 years, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times our marina's shorepower has been out for a whole day. With a couple fingers left over.

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Old 13-06-2014, 12:38   #60
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Re: Large older MY's, cheap to buy but....

You do not live in New England and need to run your heater continuously during the Winter. Even a few hours without power and heat in mid Winter can be pretty nasty in Boston!! An inverter will suffice to keep the diesel heater operating provided she is conserving other uses.
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