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Old 30-04-2013, 10:23   #31
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

You do not need lithium batteries to have a viable electric boat.

The key is to have a boat big enough to have a large area for solar panels.
Traditionally a big boat is an expensive boat, but it doesn't have to be.

A trimaran is essentially a monohull that is very wide,
so one can have a monohull "price",
but a surface area big enough for a lot of solar panels.
And a trimaran is well suited as a lightweight boat that can be driven without a lot of power. So while I am starting with a cat, I can imagine taking a monohull, removing the lead keel, adding amas, and converting it to a solar trimaran at a very reasonable cost.

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Old 30-04-2013, 10:42   #32
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

Thank you Cotemar, we did have a bit of thread drift. I have mentioned before that any thread I start, I have no problem with drift and I've been guilty of drifting other threads myself.

I'll address the drift as to budget. Had I been able to work during my most productive years in the Merchant Marine as planned, then I would have just commissioned Chris White to build me an Atlantic series boat with my desire for an all electric galley, electric propulsion, and a dinghy davit supporting 1000 watts of solar. So I would still be sailing, but at a good turn of speed, and still enjoy freedom on the hook from running gen sets and using propane. But instead of a $2 mil budget for the boat, I'm in the 1/4 mil budget. This will buy a number of great used cruising boats from a Sundeer mono to many different multihulls. SolarWave in the above link I would jump at if it was even near my budget, but it is currently listed for US$522,960, so too much. Something as small (but capable) as the Aspen C90, new from the builder with a 150 hp diesel is around $200K, leaving room to save weight and money going to a 36 hp diesel, then converting to diesel-electric with solar for about $250K, well within my budget. Just maybe I'll get lucky and since this is the first time SolarWave was placed on the market, the owners wanted to see if they could get $523K, and after it sits on the market for enough time they will lower the price to something I could make an offer on.
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Old 30-04-2013, 10:44   #33
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

JackB,

Your right. Transatlantic 21 made the crossing on AGM batteries.
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Old 30-04-2013, 11:45   #34
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
No, sometimes it isn't worth it arguing with someone too dense to understand.

Ah, yes, that's the reason you argued cheap=better.
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Old 30-04-2013, 11:47   #35
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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The new LifePO4 batteries are the way to go, but are not at the set and forget stage as the current lead acid batteries that most cruisers are so comfortable with today.
The moment you use LA for more than a starter battery, I don't consider them to set and forget either. Not if you want them to last a while.
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Old 30-04-2013, 11:54   #36
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

I went back and forth with the owners of Transatlantic21 trying to purchase her after she finished her journey to NY. In the end, they donated her to a nonprofit group in Florida as an efficient research vessel.
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Old 30-04-2013, 11:54   #37
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

Both battery chemistry need proper care to extract the advertised cycle life. 80% DOD for lithium, 50% DOD for lead. Both should be monitored for cell balance but only when you use single cell batteries will you be able to balance when needed. A 6 volt lead acid battery when it has a errant cell, your unable to balance it to the other two cells. As most large format LiFePO4 are all single cell, then pack balancing is easy.
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Old 30-04-2013, 11:59   #38
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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I went back and forth with the owners of Transatlantic21 trying to purchase her after she finished her journey to NY. In the end, they donated her to a nonprofit group in Florida as an efficient research vessel.
Very interesting. I knew they donated it but didn't know one of the forum members tried to purchase it. Do you mind sharing the failed negotiations? I've kept this boat in the back of my mind because I figure if the current owners need cash for other projects at the same time the boat needs a battery bank replacement, I would make an offer and if accepted convert it to LiFePO4 and saving a lot of weight and 5 times the cycle life.
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Old 30-04-2013, 12:00   #39
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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The moment you use LA for more than a starter battery, I don't consider them to set and forget either. Not if you want them to last a while.
My house bank is Maintenance Free Calcium lead acid and I have 460 watts of SunPower solar panels.

The batteries are going on five years now and I have never touched them. The solar keeps them topped off and truly hands free.
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Old 30-04-2013, 12:07   #40
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

AGM's were supposedly also "maintenance free". And we're talking about batteries used in a boat where deep discharges will happen, and where there is no engine to top them off.

I'm sorry, but lead acids being "maintenance free" (which is a half truth - "even" for Calciums) is not the same as "set and forget" as it was said in the post I responded to. If you want to keep your batteries healthy, you better not "forget" them. My computer battery is "maintenance free" as well. But in reality you still want to take care of it. You know, just like with any type battery: Know how to best take care of it (varies with chemistry) and it will last and perform the best the longest.
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Old 30-04-2013, 12:11   #41
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Thank you Cotemar, we did have a bit of thread drift. I have mentioned before that any thread I start, I have no problem with drift and I've been guilty of drifting other threads myself.

I'll address the drift as to budget. Had I been able to work during my most productive years in the Merchant Marine as planned, then I would have just commissioned Chris White to build me an Atlantic series boat with my desire for an all electric galley, electric propulsion, and a dinghy davit supporting 1000 watts of solar. So I would still be sailing, but at a good turn of speed, and still enjoy freedom on the hook from running gen sets and using propane. But instead of a $2 mil budget for the boat, I'm in the 1/4 mil budget. This will buy a number of great used cruising boats from a Sundeer mono to many different multihulls. SolarWave in the above link I would jump at if it was even near my budget, but it is currently listed for US$522,960, so too much. Something as small (but capable) as the Aspen C90, new from the builder with a 150 hp diesel is around $200K, leaving room to save weight and money going to a 36 hp diesel, then converting to diesel-electric with solar for about $250K, well within my budget. Just maybe I'll get lucky and since this is the first time SolarWave was placed on the market, the owners wanted to see if they could get $523K, and after it sits on the market for enough time they will lower the price to something I could make an offer on.

Very interesting numbers. I suppose I stand corrected because I was thinking a brand new hull etc would def be north of 500k.
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Old 30-04-2013, 12:23   #42
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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Very interesting. I knew they donated it but didn't know one of the forum members tried to purchase it. Do you mind sharing the failed negotiations? I've kept this boat in the back of my mind because I figure if the current owners need cash for other projects at the same time the boat needs a battery bank replacement, I would make an offer and if accepted convert it to LiFePO4 and saving a lot of weight and 5 times the cycle life.
Transatlantic21 was owned by a few doctors with a few other sponsors in the mix. They were all eco minded and wanted to make history, which is what that did with the solar boat and the journey. In the end it was not money that motivated them, but putting their names in the history books. They liked the idea of selling her in NY after the historic day was done, but an Eco ocean research group talked them into donating her as a tribute to true ecology. I really could taste having her as my eco boat and just did not want to see such a great boat go to a scrap heap, so in the end it was all good as she lives on.
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Old 30-04-2013, 13:29   #43
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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Very interesting numbers. I suppose I stand corrected because I was thinking a brand new hull etc would def be north of 500k.
For most new builds you are 100% correct. The Aspen C90 is a very modest 28' proa/cat hull that using Aspen's boat plugs, are built for Aspen by Nordic Tugs of Burlington, Wash., one of the Pacific Northwest’s premier builders. This keeps the costs down and Aspen then outfits and finishes these hulls. Equipped with a 150 hp Volvo-Penta, sell new for under $200K. Aspen has a year long back order of boats but $10K fully refundable deposit will secure a production slot. Like I said, the Aspen is a bit small for my tastes, but plenty strong for the rigors of open waters, and at the price including solar/electric conversion should come in at $250K. Because of a 10' beam they are trailerable with a wide load permit throughout Canada and the US. With the all up weight of less than 12,000 lbs with trailer, can be towed with a 3/4 to 1 ton pickup or Ford Excursion SUV. The radar/antenna mast can pivot downward, giving a bridge clearance height of 12' 6".
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Old 30-04-2013, 15:05   #44
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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Transatlantic21 was owned by a few doctors with a few other sponsors in the mix. They were all eco minded and wanted to make history, which is what that did with the solar boat and the journey. In the end it was not money that motivated them, but putting their names in the history books. They liked the idea of selling her in NY after the historic day was done, but an Eco ocean research group talked them into donating her as a tribute to true ecology. I really could taste having her as my eco boat and just did not want to see such a great boat go to a scrap heap, so in the end it was all good as she lives on.
So is it back in Spain? Wasn't WWF Adena Madrid the recipients of the boat?
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Old 30-04-2013, 15:42   #45
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Re: Jumping ship to power????

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So is it back in Spain? Wasn't WWF Adena Madrid the recipients of the boat?
I was told Transatlantic21 was going to Florida.

Apparently, no one wanted to spend the time and energy to bring Transatlantic21 back across the pond to Basel.
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