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Old 25-07-2011, 21:45   #61
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
My question is, Can you safely cross oceans in a 40-45' trawler knowing that one day your ultimate storm will come and the trawler, I suspect is will neither float nor right itself if inverted?

Greg
If I were to clarify what type Trawler in the 40-45 ft. size would survive extreme weather the key characteristics would be:

--A very deep foot in the water with large fuel tanks lower down mid-ships, meaning a semi aft engine room in the shallower section of the hull.

--Well baffled, isolated fuel tanks would need to be designed to be ballasted with seawater in case of heavy water, or the need to trim against beam winds and dynamic forces.

--Alternatively, longer hull with dedicated ballast tanks..

--While the goal is to keep your weight very low, proper design for a forgiving GM Metacentric height - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is critical so as not to have wracking problems with the structure or fatigue with the crew.

--Active stabilizers can actually reduce the snap of a large GM, but steadying sail or higher superstructure can do the same thing, if ballasted properly.

In my early days running salvage tugs and rig support vessels, I thought about this a lot...
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Old 25-07-2011, 22:24   #62
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Nice post & pics Pelagic.

Several people mention lateral stability. It's not just an issue of whether the m/b can roll. They all can if handled improperly. It's also about what happens if it does. This includes whether the engine as installed will run after inversion, and whether air vents for the engine room are designed to prevent flooding during a roll. Again, design matters.
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Old 25-07-2011, 23:22   #63
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Nowhere near as safe as a keelboat.
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Old 25-07-2011, 23:49   #64
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Hummingway

In the context of cruising it seems to me the term trawler is applied to vessels cruising with power rather than sail.

Perhaps I am naive.

Passagemakers is another term frequently used.
I agree that the word is used that way, I just wish it weren't since it has meaning in the context of working boats, as nicely explained by Phil, that is lost when applied wholesale to motorcruisers.
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Old 26-07-2011, 07:19   #65
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

For a complete explanation of paravanes and their effect on passagemakers you need to go to Beebe's Voyaging Under Power. He devotes an entire chapter to the subject. They are indeed hard to handle when at sea, best to deploy them in calm waters and then leave them out. I recently added them to my vessel at a cost of 3k for steel and 3 weeks of work. Hydraulic active fins on a boat my size would have run 100k+.
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Old 26-07-2011, 07:59   #66
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Seems to me that if we use the term "trawler" to mean any vessel cruising under power we might as well close this thread. Under that definition we would include: sports fishermen types, Flybridge sports cruisers, Riviera palaces, and on and on. This includes vessels of such diverse design and intent that one can not make any substantive statements about the "trawler" class of vessels, other than that they usually float.

I suspect that the OP was referring to monohull, heavy displacement, non-planing designs based loosely or closely on traditional fishing trawler designs. That right, Greg? I have nothing at all against power cats but don't see how they relate to the OP's query.

And Pelagic, those are really terrifying photos!

Cheers,

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Old 26-07-2011, 08:05   #67
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

This is all about playing the odds. Columbus made it in wood boats sans power. Not much word in the history books as to how many boats sank before him (forget the Vikings, they had Thor rowing).

Honestly, if I wanted to cross the seas regularly in comfort, I'd choose a nuclear submarine.

Just go sailing and enjoy the day.
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Old 26-07-2011, 09:05   #68
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Nowhere near as safe as a keelboat.
Full displacement trawlers have full, deep draft weighted keels, like sailboats. Our 43 foot trawler is 5 feet deep (6 when fully loaded with fuel and water) and weighs has about 3,000 lbs. This is why a properly designed and equipped trawler is safe for crossing oceans.

A trawler refers to boats that use a similar design to the work boats, even if used for luxury. A passagemaker is a powerboat capable of crossing oceans.
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Old 26-07-2011, 09:14   #69
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

You might want to fact check that last post.
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Old 26-07-2011, 09:42   #70
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

The way it has been explained to me several times is that a trawler draws its name from the strong similarity between it and the workboat design.
I imagine that manufacturers take a fair bit of license by using the term to describe their product which leads folks to believe that the vessel will perform well in less than perfect conditions. Not necessarily true in all cases.
I have a hard time visualizing any boat under power being referred to as a trawler.
Pelagic's description fits the trawler description well although the photos are of deep sea towboats and offshore rig supply ships, I believe, not fishing vessels. They are among the safest, most stable craft around.
Interesting discussion, none the less, this forum is filled with heaps of good, entertaining and informative info IMO... Capt Phil
An afterthought... trolling also used to refer to something some folks engaged in shoreside years ago in the local bars and taverns in coastal BC...CP
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Old 26-07-2011, 10:46   #71
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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You might want to fact check that last post.
Something about a Nordhavn 43 weighing 3,000 pounds?

(They displace 30 tons empty.)
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Old 26-07-2011, 11:03   #72
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Sorry about the typo earlier. It was early and I hadn't had any caffeine yet! Our KEEL weighs 3,000 lbs and has a 5 - 6 feet draft (depending on how much fuel/water we're carrying). The whole boat weighs 55,000 lbs when fully loaded. But the heaviest things, like tanks, are low, so most of the weight is low, making us less likely to tip in big seas. Our Boat | Kosmos Travel Log

Time to go find me some caffeine!
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Old 26-07-2011, 11:57   #73
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Our KEEL weighs 3,000 lbs and has a 5 - 6 feet draft (depending on how much fuel/water we're carrying).
We pretty much knew that. It's just so very fun to mess with caffeine-deprived Nordhavn owners.

My keel, by the way, contains 9,600 lbs of lead. 7 foot draft. Built the same year as yours.

Wanna swap pink slips?
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Old 26-07-2011, 11:58   #74
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Bash... you cracked me up! CP
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Old 26-07-2011, 12:12   #75
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Bash... you cracked me up! CP
Hey, it was a serious offer. My engine only has 500 hours on it. Theirs has 10 times that much.

Sounds like a pretty good deal for them. I'm throwing in the new jib.
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