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Old 25-07-2011, 16:58   #46
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Seahorse Marine offers several open-ocean trawlers for under a million dollars.
Real beauty on the threads yesterday for sale
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Old 25-07-2011, 17:34   #47
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Re: How safe are trawlers in big seas?

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A 23 and a 26 ft , narrow beamed trailerable catamaran are hardly examples of ocean going cruisers anymore then a beach Hobie cat as an example of sailing multihulls as being easily capsized and unsuitable as cruising vessels.
I didn't see a size quantifier in your statement. No doubt size increases stability (regardless of type), but that just means a bigger wave is necessary (or worse operational decisions ). Notwithstanding purpose of design, a small craft acts remarkably similar to a large version (the basis behind model testing), so if one can capsize so can the other. To say that an "ocean going cruisers" power cat can't capsize is about as naive as saying a cruise liner can't sink.

As for your analogy above, beach cats capsize often (racier ones more often than cruisier ones), and so do large sailing catamarans (racier ones more often than cruisy ones), but less often than smaller cats; runabout power cats capsize, therefore so can larger "ocean going" ones, but less often.

How many ocean miles do "ocean going" power cruisers have compared to other vessel types? I'm guessing not a lot.

As an aside, if you knew my backgound you'd know I'm pretty pro multihull. Just don't say they "can't" capsize. Say it's less likely.

Cheers,
Lee

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Old 25-07-2011, 18:08   #48
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Re: How safe are trawlers in big seas?

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I didn't see a size quantifier in your statement.
Well the thread is about ocean crossing vessels in the 40-45 ft range, it says so in the very first post

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Notwithstanding purpose of design, a small craft acts remarkably similar to a large version (the basis behind model testing), so if one can capsize so can the other.
Trailereable powered multihulls like you used as an example are considerably narrower, therefore their stability would be different
Seawind 24 sailing cat is 16ft wide
A typical 25ft PowerCat Sports Fisherman is 8ft wide
At a rough estimate, one would think the 16ft wide vessel is twice as stable for the same length

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To say that an "ocean going cruisers" power cat can't capsize is about as naive as saying a cruise liner can't sink.
Care to point out where I claimed that a powercat cant capsize?

Quote:
As for your analogy above, beach cats capsize often (racier ones more often than cruisier ones), and so do large sailing catamarans (racier ones more often than cruisy ones), but less often than smaller cats; runabout power cats capsize, therefore so can larger "ocean going" ones, but less often.

How many ocean miles do "ocean going" power cruisers have compared to other vessel types? I'm guessing not a lot.
Not sure what any of that has to do with anything

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As an aside, if you knew my backgound you'd know I'm pretty pro multihull. Just don't say they "can't" capsize. Say it's less likely.
What, like I did here?

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
I have provided evidence done by independent testers that show a standard width multihull is far less likely to roll /capsize in a breaking beam sea than a monohull.
.
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Old 25-07-2011, 19:04   #49
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Re: How safe are trawlers in big seas?

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Care to point out where I claimed that a powercat cant capsize?
You said this:
Quote:
Perhaps you can attempt to explain how a powered cat could capsize?
And then provide examples of one that actually happened?
Unless you're slicing it really fine, I think that's exactly what you were saying. You aren't by any chance related to canucksailor, are you? Some folks here are pretty touchy recently.
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Old 25-07-2011, 19:13   #50
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

T-r-a-w-l-e-r-s ... not whatever you cat people are ranting about.
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Old 25-07-2011, 19:33   #51
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

daddle,

There are both mono and cat trawlers available in the marketplace thesedays.

Yes, cats are invading all areas.
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Old 25-07-2011, 19:41   #52
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

I think the big difference is range.I ran a power boat down south from Maine. I was surprised that I behaved like a sail boater. I checked weather left when it was right. Checked running hours. Got bashed up in some fowl stuff. The only difference was I couldn't turn off that droning noise. I sailed a old hard chine wood ketch for years then a farrier tri now a displacement mono. That tri could sit on a wave and ride like a big guy. I love this Peterson mono. Any one of these boats I would happily cruise again. I am curious about stability and power boats that have long range capability. Usually I try to post real life experience. I put a down east style power boat through a hellaciuos steep chop for hours she fell into waves I mean dropped never once did I think she would roll. I did wonder if the engine would just fall straight thru the bottom as she dropped flat into the low end of the swell.
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Old 25-07-2011, 19:59   #53
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
daddle,

There are both mono and cat trawlers available in the marketplace thesedays.

Yes, cats are invading all areas.
I've got to take exception to this (in a friendly way of course ).

A trawler is boat used for dragging a net to catch fish. I've never heard of a catamaran version. A troller is sometimes confused with a trawler but equally never seen with multiple hulls. I do know what you mean but wish people wuldn't pollute the lexicon and would instead refer to these things as motor cruisers unless they indeed were trollers, trawlers, shrimp boats, etc. and have been converted and therefore deserve the title.

My 2c.
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Old 25-07-2011, 20:23   #54
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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I've got to take exception to this (in a friendly way of course ).

A trawler is boat used for dragging a net to catch fish.
Well, thats 99% of the boats in this magazine Trawlers & Trawlering: Voyaging, cruising and living aboard under power
and 99% of the vessels currently for sale Browse Trawler boats for sale
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Old 25-07-2011, 20:31   #55
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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ranting
ranting: verb [intrasitive]. What happens whenever someone wants to flame your boat for being something different from his boat.

see also:

ranting: noun. [rhetorical device]. A complete waste of time.
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Old 25-07-2011, 20:35   #56
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Hummingway

In the context of cruising it seems to me the term trawler is applied to vessels cruising with power rather than sail.

Perhaps I am naive.

Passagemakers is another term frequently used.
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Old 25-07-2011, 21:09   #57
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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I am curious about stability and power boats that have long range capability.
There are two types of stabilization systems available, paravanes and active fin. Paravanes are inexpensive and simple, but heavy and difficult to deploy and bring in. Active fins are expensive, complex and all you have to do to operate them is push a button. Stabilization is not necessary to keep the boat from flipping (assuming it is properly weighted with a self-righting keel), but it sure adds a lot to the comfort of the ride! It doesn't stop the motion, but dampens it.
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Old 25-07-2011, 21:12   #58
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

For what it's worth, a west coast troller can run up to about 45 feet. Working one off the west coast of BC and the Queen Charlottes was a lesson in endurance and seakeeping ability of ship and crew. Seas at times were 30-40 feet off the Swiftsure Bank and north end of Vancouver Island late in the season. Paravanes helped somwhat but it was a pretty rough ride for the 10-14 day trips.
Ed Monk Sr contributed a lot to the designs of the more modern troller and I discussed the design issue personally with Art DeFever on a couple of occasions because his lines on the DeFever 54 trawler were very similar to the west coast trollers I worked as a kid.
The design is certainly suited to offshore passage making out about 300 miles but not certain how they would perform in confused, steep seas you might encounter in hurricane conditions a thousand miles out.
A lot would depend on whether or not you were running with or pounding into the steeper seas. One could throttle back and wait for conditions to improve.
My understanding of the term troller is it is specific to commercial line fishing, usually set up with gurdies for multiple lines and leaders.
Trawlers are commercial net draggers for bottom fish and crusteceans (shrimp) and also refer to pleasure craft of similar design as commercial trollers and trawlers. Please correct if my perception is wrong... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 25-07-2011, 21:21   #59
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

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Trawlers are commercial net draggers for bottom fish and crusteceans (shrimp) and also refer to pleasure craft of similar design as commercial trollers and trawlers. Please correct if my perception is wrong... cheers, Capt Phil
"Trawler" not only refers to the boat, but can refer to the skipper of such a boat as well. Example: "He was a trawler from the age of sixteen."

(This definition, of course, lends new meaning to the question, "How safe are trawers in big seas.")
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Old 25-07-2011, 21:26   #60
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Re: How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

Capt Phil,

you are correct re fishing vessels but the term trawler for in my understanding trawler is often used for a powerdriven cruiser context.
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