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Old 10-12-2010, 16:01   #31
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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
And if it spits a rig?
Not unheard of on sailboats they tell me.
I have dropped 2
My powerboat would not make much speed with a temporary mast and sail. The sailboat might get me back.

-dan
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Old 10-12-2010, 18:10   #32
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Further to my previous comments, on my personal boat which was a 54 ft DeFever, twin Cat D330's, I burned 4 gal/hour between Desolation Sound, BC and San Diego, CA running at 1550 RPM doing around 7-7.5 knots. Had I been running a single diesel, fuel consumption would probably have been about 30-40% less I would think. Tankage was 1800 gal and I calculated I could have made it to Hawaii from SD with the existing tankage (just!) but would not have attempted without another 500 gal fuel bladder for insurance. Hopes that helps in your calculations... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 10-12-2010, 18:16   #33
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My powerboat would not make much speed with a temporary mast and sail. The sailboat might get me back.

-dan
A good passagemaker powerboat will often have a backup propulsion system. Usually they are called the wing engine or the get home system. However the probabilities of engine failure are very low on a well maintained keel-cooled dry-exhaust diesel running at low RPM with good fuel. A bigger risk is getting something tangled in the prop, which can be mitigated with on shaft line cutters.

When you look at the variable mechanical stress of sailing, chances of a some kind of failure are actually pretty high. I looked at a group of sailboats crossing the Pacific (pacificpuddlejump) and almost half had some kind of rigging problem. Likewise I crossed the Atlantic with 4 sailboats at the same time and they all had rigging/sail issues partly due to lots of variable wind. Of course these rigging issues were not catastrophic and the boats made it. In a similar way, there are several engine issues that are not catastrophic either.

Bottom line, a proper powerboat is no more scary than a sailboat for crossing oceans.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:17   #34
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G'day, mates. Another "yachtie" (sailboater) lurking on a power boat thread, hope I'm welcome. The OP has raised the stakes to the $300,000 range (really doesn't matter Aussie or Greenback $$'s at the moment). I have a Mason 53 sailboat in top condition available lying here in New Zealand. There have been a few suggestions in this thread to look at the sailing option for long distance passages.

My Mason can NOT offer the live aboard accommodation of a similar length trawler. However, I do have 300 gallons of diesel, 85 HP auxillary diesel, 160 gallons of water, 20 gallon/hour watermaker, 8KW genset. 130 amp battery charger, 2500 watt inverter, with 4 8-D Lifeline AGM batteries. The rig was recently removed, surveyed, painted, and necessary shrouds replaced. Sails in excellent condition with a complete set for spares. The bottom paint was also recently removed and new barrier coat installed. It has a diamond pattern non-skid deck, so no teak decks to maintain either.

The Mason's builds were to a very high standard, in fact, the Nordhavn's are produced at the very same yard. This Mason 53 can cover 200 mile day's sailing or motoring. At a 150 mile/day, there is enough fuel capacity to motor the entire 1,100 mile range from New Zealand to Fiji in light winds/seas.

At the end of the day, over a 15 year period, it is my experience, based on my own 13 year liveaboard cruise that the maintenance costs trawler vs. sailboat are pretty close to a "wash". I do have the option to motor (actually, in my case, less than 5% of my at sea time) unlike the owner of a trawler, who never has the option to use the wind to make the desired passage.

Unless the OP rules out the option of a passagemaking sailboat, my view is that they should seriously give it consideration to complete long distance passages. Cheers.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:54   #35
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Met a family in Key West last year that had been out for 2 years, a Dane from Greenland with an Inuit wife and two teenage sons that were traveling all over and I can tell you they were doing it for less than $50 a day in a North Sea trawler with some sail an a small diesel. If you want to blast around the world in a year in a Nordhavn, yes it will cost you $500k.
I got the impression the Dane and his family were having a lot more fun.
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:13   #36
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My powerboat would not make much speed with a temporary mast and sail. The sailboat might get me back.

-dan

My powerboat would work just fine
The hulls are performance sailing catamaran hulls (modified)
The rudders are large balanced foils

It also has 2 engines, each with independent fuel and power supplies.
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:19   #37
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Having been shopping around for trawlers, I'm wondering if planning for 2.5 mpg in a 40 ft trawler is pretty optimistic?? That would assume burning about 3 gal/hr at 7.5 knots, which means using about (3 gal/hr x 20 hp/gal/hr=) 60 hp out of the hundreds of hp most of these boats are equipped with.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:08   #38
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We get about 2.5 GPH at 7.5 and 3 at 8 Kn. - Defever 41. Single 145 HP Yanmar
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:31   #39
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If you want to blast around the world in a year in a Nordhavn, yes it will cost you $500k.
You missed the math. Roughly speaking can go around the world in two years in a boat valued at $500k for about $300k up front. Then assume you sell the boat at some loss, subtract out fuel and insurance ($40-60k). So then the other expenses of cruising (food and activities), and it costs about roughly $150k for a round the world adventure. The trick is to have it bounded in set amount of time.

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I got the impression the Dane and his family were having a lot more fun.
Cruising is fun and a wonderful lifestyle. If you do it on a Nordhavn, North Sea, Mason, or an old wooden sailboat it is still cruising. I would not disparage or judge happiness for anyone for the kind of boat they have. Or by how much money they spend to have certain luxuries or not. One thing I will say is being a tourist anywhere does cost some money. Food, guided tours, scuba, museums, local attractions, cars, scooters, etc. all have some expense. Getting from point A to point B and then having your own bed is the foundation of all cruising. I think it would be mistake to spend all your money on that foundation and not enjoying life off the boat.

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Having been shopping around for trawlers, I'm wondering if planning for 2.5 mpg in a 40 ft trawler is pretty optimistic?? That would assume burning about 3 gal/hr at 7.5 knots, which means using about (3 gal/hr x 20 hp/gal/hr=) 60 hp out of the hundreds of hp most of these boats are equipped with.
You only need about 60hp at the prop to move a 40ish foot boat at long distance displacement speeds. "Voyaging Under Power" has all the math and it is interesting. And yes, many full displacement powerboats have 30-100% more horsepower than they need. It is not too big of a deal to run the RPM low to get the good nm/gal numbers as long as you do things like run it at high RPM for 5-10 min a day to help clear out any buildup.

It is important to realize nm/gal does vary with sea conditions and timing (urgency to get somewhere) by 10-50%. The nm/gal that is the only important number aboard a powerboat. It is interesting that people always like to quote gal/hour, but that not that useful of a number. Diesels are all about the same on gal/hour for a given load and horsepower. What matters is waterline length, prop efficiency, and sea conditions. It is tricky to get over 3 nm/gal in real world long passage ocean conditions at reasonable speeds. Also it is hard to get under 2 nm/gal at reasonable speeds as well.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:33   #40
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I find it a difficult comparison to move from MPH or KNPH to GPH. With tides, current, head or following seas, windage and any number of other variables, it is probably best to use GPH in a trawler design regardless of twin or single engine configuration. Single always being a leaner set up fuel wise. Matauwhi has a good comparison of sail vs power. Masons are a great boat, didn't know they came from the same yard as the Nordy's... the only reason I moved from sail to power was age and health reasons but the important thing is being on the water! Capt Phil
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Old 11-12-2010, 13:11   #41
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We found our nauticat 44 gave a good blend of both options, nice roomy pilothouse for those not so nice days, reasonable rig for sailing when the wind was right, 120 hp and enough tankage for motoring or motorsailing, when we crossed from Tasmania to Nelson, NZ, we motorsailed at night well reefed down no stress and sailed during the day, batteries always charged, 1250 miles 600 litres fuel, It was my wifes first offshore passage and we had no dramas and arrived well rested after 8.5 days. all the yachts that crossed at about the same time had rigging problems etc.
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Old 11-12-2010, 16:53   #42
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Having been shopping around for trawlers, I'm wondering if planning for 2.5 mpg in a 40 ft trawler is pretty optimistic?? That would assume burning about 3 gal/hr at 7.5 knots, which means using about (3 gal/hr x 20 hp/gal/hr=) 60 hp out of the hundreds of hp most of these boats are equipped with.
Have a look at the boat/link in my sig





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On a displacement boat of 40 – 50 ft your best fuel economy will most likely be a bit under hull speed, or about 6 - 8 knots. On Lifeline we travel at 7 knots at 1150RPM, which gives us fuel economy of 8 litres (2 US gallons) per hour or about 3 tenths of a gallon to go 1 nautical mile.
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Old 11-12-2010, 17:57   #43
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Having been shopping around for trawlers, I'm wondering if planning for 2.5 mpg in a 40 ft trawler is pretty optimistic?? That would assume burning about 3 gal/hr at 7.5 knots, which means using about (3 gal/hr x 20 hp/gal/hr=) 60 hp out of the hundreds of hp most of these boats are equipped with.
A sistership to the one we are having built achieves 11L (2.9USgal) / hr at 8 knots in calm seas so there are definitely trawlers out there that can achieve what you want. Just remember to allow for the increased consumption as the seas increase etc.

Also, as an ex sailor I would like to say that in 1.5 circumnavigations we did not have any rig problems and only encountered a couple of boats that had; which seems at odds with some of the experiences being stated.
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Old 14-12-2010, 12:13   #44
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I'm following the path of Lorenzo b...ie, converting a shrimper or trawl boat. Buy one right and stick with the basics and $150k is a mid range budget. At 85ft I've got 25,000 gal of fuel and 6,000 gal of water. A friend just bought fuel in Venezuela for 40 cents per gal...roughly 12,000 miles....and it goes to weather.
I just talked to someone who went to Venezuela and bought 12000 gallons at 40 cents, but the total fees required to do the transaction raised the per-gallon price to $1.25. Still cheap, but that's still $15,000 USD.
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