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Old 05-12-2010, 08:29   #16
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... then comes the only real tricky part.... Iran and the Gulf/Yemen/Red Sea and thats with the Pirates....
Why would a circumnavigator transit through Iran's waters, in the Persian Gulf?
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:47   #17
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I would second the suggestion to look at the Diesel Ducks especially with $300K to spend.
Yep. Good choice.

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I'd go for a decommissioned fishing trawler. But beware of anything that has already passed through the hands of a dreamer with more optimism than money. but that same for any boat
I'd be very careful of decommissioned fishing trawlers in general. Great choice, but I'd be careful. If it is in good shape, some other fisherman would buy it and put his boat up for sale. In other words, the ones for sale have been pushed out, quite possibly because they have become uneconomical to run. And even if it was the economy that pushed them out, they may have held off on needed repairs so they could hold on for several more years.

Unless it is from a segment of the market that is suffering from over fishing and/or quotas that pushed them out. The best bet might be buy-back boats. These are ones where new quotas were set and the government bought boats from people going out of business.

Still, an ex-fishing trawler is very appealing to me. Basically, it's survey, survey, survey. And expect to look at lots of them before finding one that's acceptable.

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Will cost a lot of money to convert her to motor yacht standard of finish and mod cons, but if you are happy with a more workmanlike level of fit out and maybe also even not converting every last inch of her to a yacht - fish hold(s) would make a great workshop / storage rather than a 5th bedroom etc the numbers could start coming towards you..........well, until you hit resale - as will be a bit of a niche market
That covers it very well.

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Might be worth googling on Charter Dive Boats for sale - the sort of business that can attract those with a bit more cash and optimisim than sense.
That also sounds like a good idea.

-dan
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:32   #18
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We got our 63 ft steel shrimp boat from a bank for 32k with 6k in fuel on her a a running 12/71 engine. The previous owner took a serious dive into a gin bottle when fuel prices went up to $4.50 a gal and shrimp prices dropped. Of course he neglected maintenance and the boat needed bottom work, so what I bought was a hull. I now have about $250k into it with no resale value and I still have work to do and always will.
So here I sit in St Augustine 200 ft off the fort on a pretty day.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:10   #19
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Noticed a nice looking steel trawler on Ebay for around $175K, fairly well fitted out. DeFever's would be my choice having owned and lived aboard one for 5 years. If $150K is your top limit, remember that you will probably need at least $50K for nav gear, replacement parts, provisioning, etc. If you are looking at a decommissioned fishing trawler remember that they have probably been used hard but maintained reasonably well. British Columbia had a licence buy back program a while back but the inventory has probably been picked over by now. Wooden hulls are very common in Europe and Asia so repairs by competent yards are usually done well at a reasonable cost. Shrimpers are also a good offshore boat. Good luck... Capt Phil
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Old 05-12-2010, 14:47   #20
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Have you priced a GOOD used Diesel Duck lately?
If you thinnk a Nordhavn is beyond the budget, well...
Count me in as another vote to go commercial. Buy a decent used troller (NOT a trawler, big difference), a book on boatbuilding or boat furniture, some tools and have at it.
There is a 60' fish tug/ pleasure boat conversion available locally that is tempting. Detroit Diesel 6-71 dry stack drivetrain, hell-for- stout hull, and more room than most suburban tract homes, she is rude, crude, loud and proud, economical to run, and she won't run from much- a LOT of boat for under $25K. She and her sisters have been bringing working watermen home for more than 8 decades- if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.
If I could find a way to work up a decent sail rig for her, I would have been all over her by now.

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Old 05-12-2010, 15:11   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Why would a circumnavigator transit through Iran's waters, in the Persian Gulf?
I was refering to Irans southern shore from Pakistans western border to the mouth of the Gulf... they'd either have to stand out 200miles or have a transit permit to present to any guard boat that found them..
Also figured they'd want to see the Gulf States...
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Old 05-12-2010, 15:17   #22
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In 2004, 18 Nordhavns had a rally across the Atlantic. They all made it but a large percentage of the fleet had serious mechanical problems and required help from PAE and factory technicians (who were fortunately along). This included a transfer of techs by dinghy in mid-Atlantic to work on stabilizers.

In 2007, 3 boats repeated successfully but without PAE wanting to be involved

In 2008, Norhavn had a rally from LA to Catalina Island.

This isn't meant as a slam on Nordhavn as they're fine boats but only a small percentage are used for more than coastal work. Most other yacht trawler brands stay even closer to shore.

There are good reasons for this. You really want to understand those reasons before thinking about a circumnavigation.

Carl
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:57   #23
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Thanks for the great replies guys!

I doubt I would do an actual circumnavigation, but I would like to be able to travel long distances.

I live in Australia and would love to be able to travel up to Alaska, or to the Orkney Islands for example.

If I was to move up to the $300k mark, what would the best options be?

I'm still very much in the dreaming / planning stage but would like to be able set a goal amount of money to aim to spend.
We relocated from Oz to EU around 15 years back and were surprised one morning in Greece to row past an Adelaide registered 40 foot power yacht - a semi displacement design. He had come from South Australia on his own bottom - carried 44 gallon drums on deck to cover the longer legs - and aimed to return the same way.
Do not think he aimed to take on the Atlantic or Pacific but you can still see a lot of the world even if you don't.

Cheers
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:59   #24
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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
In 2004, 18 Nordhavns had a rally across the Atlantic. They all made it but a large percentage of the fleet had serious mechanical problems and required help from PAE and factory technicians (who were fortunately along). This included a transfer of techs by dinghy in mid-Atlantic to work on stabilizers.
This makes it sound a little worse than it actually was.

From what I recall, only one of the problems could have potentially kept them from continuing. That was a short in a converter that caused some major electrical problems. That was resolved over sat-phone. It's been a few years since I read reports and watched the DVD, so I may be forgetting something.

There was one fuel system problem. If I remember correctly, that was also resolved by the crew and maybe radio and/or sat-phone.

Another had fuel transferred mid-ocean (but that was considered as a possibility before they set out and plans were in place). Also, the reason they needed the fuel was because they needed to run faster than their most efficient speed to keep up with their group (that was a Nordhavn 40).

The majority of problems were with stabilizers. While uncomfortable, they would have made it.

Like I said, I am probably forgetting something...

HOWEVER:

The gist of what you are pointing out is valid. A power boat is more likely to have a problem that will keep them from continuing where a sailboat could.

Myself, I wouldn't want to do a solo cross on the route they took in a 40' boat. And in ANY boat, I'd have SSB and sat-phone and a group of people onshore with all the phone numbers and contact name for the manufacturers of all critical parts. And that's just the bare start of the emergency planning.

But I'd feel pretty good about trying it in something like, say, a Nordhavn 62 or bigger. If I ever come up with a spare 2 mil, I might just do it. That'd include 1 mil for the boat, tens of thousands in spare parts, schooling in diesel, electrical, etc. (I already know a bit, but would want formal training to fill in the blanks), not to mention safety gear, upgrades, etc. Then enough left over to pay for someone to come get me if I needed it.

But, as a previous poster pointed out, there is the Northern route to keep you closer to land and support. So, a 40'r could still be viable. But much of what I said in the above paragraph still holds.

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Old 06-12-2010, 13:07   #25
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hey bljones, perhaps it is an east-west semantic difference but my recollection is that a troller on the west coast is a 'smaller' vessel used primarily for trolling for salmon, usually under 45-50 feet for off shore, ie outside of inland waterways and even smaller for inside waterways while a trawler is a commercial vessel capable of seining, dragging or long lining, usually over 50 feet in length. Pleasure boat trawlers are knockoffs of the larger west coast design and builders/designer have taken great licence with calling their product a trawler. Having worked the west coast on trollers and trawlers in my 'formative' years inshore and offshore, perhaps I have an incorrect understanding of the terms after all these years... if I'm wrong, I'm sure that someone on this thread will correct my understanding. Shrimpers in my mind are definitely trawlers and great sea boats. Lots for sale at the moment in the Gulf... Capt Phil
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Old 06-12-2010, 13:17   #26
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To the OP, don't discount Alaska as a source for solid offshore boat buying... there are some really outstanding vessels up there and a few are owned by banks. They usually need a bit of work to upgrade them to comfortable cruising levels but they can have good electronics, drivetrains, spare mechanical inventory and their deck gear can be sold up there. Besides you are halfway home to OZ. Once you hit Japan, it is downhill all the way if you avoid cyclone season... good hunting, Capt Phil
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Old 06-12-2010, 19:32   #27
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Not all "Trawlers" are the same.

I think I would argue that not all trawlers/trollers are the same.

I would figure that you could cruise the world in a good quality, 40 foot+ diesel engined trawler with a decent quality full displacement hull. A solidly build displacement hull, with a decent diesel engine would seem like just the ticket to get where your going. In order to keep the price tag under 150k, it would have to be rather small. It would be rather slow going, but you'd almost certanly get there. That small size would probably mean limited comforts compared to a larger vessel, but probably better than a similarly sized sailing vessel.

Fishermen do similar distance fairly regularly going after their catch. Their boats arn't much bigger than that in some cases. It would stand to reason that if they could do it, so can anyone else. But not in a semi-displacement, lightweight hull, like an Island Trader trawler. Then again, much the same advice is often given to those wants to cross oceans in lightweight coastal sailing vessels.

The advantage for the power boat is that lacking rigging, it can be smaller for the same interor volume, and lacks the cost of the rigging. Really that's a double hit on the capital, and maintance costs. Less rigging to buy, less rigging to wear out. Also, less hull to buy, which means smaller everything from anchors to dock lines. $30,000 in rigging pays for alought of diesel! That goes double for one of the small, fuel efficent diesels that power a small, full displacement trawler.

What say the experts?
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Old 06-12-2010, 21:17   #28
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No expert, VU but what you say makes a lot of sense... Over the years I made many runs of 4-500 miles to fishing grounds and return without problems I couldn't handle fairly easily. I agree that less than 40 feet is tempting fate given the types of ocean conditions you are bound to experience out there. All the vessels I worked were full displacement necessarily to handle ice, fuel, the catch and crew. Almost all were single diesels which ran almost constantly for weeks at a time. Many were wooden hulled but a couple were steel. With the advances in design, engine weight/power ratio improvements and nav improvements, well maintained commercial vessels can be a good bet for passage making... Capt Phil
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Old 10-12-2010, 14:31   #29
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Few things:

- Fuel to circumnavigate is easy to calculate: Assume about 30,000nm and about 2.6 nmpg (us gallon) for a trawler in the 40-50 foot range. Round up and you get 12,000 gal of diesel. Budget up for about $4 a gallon and you get about $50k.

- Boat cost depends on a big choice: Loan or own, and overall time cruising. Roughly on a boat loan, each $100k in boat coast will be about $1000 per month. A two year circumnavigation on a powerboat means about 25% underway, which is a very doable pace. If you want to assume a $500k loan then roughly that is $120k for 2 year circumnavigation. Insurance is a percentage of the boat value, but roughly adds another $10k per year. Of course getting approved for a loan is not easy these days.

- So if you actually have $300k in cash, and can get a loan, it is quite possible to comfortably and safely circumnavigate on a power boat.

Go read the book "Voyaging Under Power" by Robert Beebe. While cruising on any small boat is all in the same ballpark, a properly designed/equipped trawler is in many ways safer, more comfortable, and just as economical as a sailboat. Many sailors have the wrong impression and details of full displacement trawlers used for cruising.

Interestingly most cruising sailboats spend 25-75% of with the motor running. Many wish they had more fuel capacity. Fuel = luxury, either by propulsion or by the quick electrical power it provides.

There is a pretty broad spectrum of boats and equipment to go cruising (sail and power). They provide a correspondingly different set of constraints and trade-offs. It is a very personal decision, and there are many opinions. Some things that are comfortable to one person, might be unacceptable to another.

Generally speaking people who cruise the oceans on boats are in an elite financial club. About 4 billion people live on less than $4 a day. Turns out about only the top few percent will have the financial means pull off cruising on their own boat. But that is still millions of people. It turns out the real obstacle is personal health, the will and the passion to make long range cruising on your own boat happen. It has many rewards, but only a few make it.
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Old 10-12-2010, 15:49   #30
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A power boat is more likely to have a problem that will keep them from continuing where a sailboat could.
And if it spits a rig?
Not unheard of on sailboats they tell me.
I have dropped 2
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