gas/diesel Huge selling diff

[SouthernPride]

That answer is pretty easy to figure out. Look at the difference in pricing between a gas and diesel of similar configurations. Furthermore you will probably notice the gas boats don't leave the dock near as much as the diesel boats.

I have a Hatteras 53, twin diesels, just finished rehabbing. Optimum fuel efficiency is from running at 11 knots. goes down from there until I get to 17 knots then back up again.

Sorry I cannot find the chart indicating such.

Another way to look at it. The United States depends on diesel trucks to survive. They run from 20 below 0 to well over 120 F. They run continually for day's. Most use common parts for repair.

My biggest concern is the amount of fuel I can carry. I can carry 650 gallons of diesel. Researching if I can switch a water tank out for diesel fuel. It's only me so water consumption is of a lesser priority. I carry a lot of bottled water so I am not losing as much as the tank holds.

I am researching adding a "short sail" to my boat. Trawlers have them but I don't know if it will work on a Hat. Pretty positive results from what I have read. Has anyone done this on something like a Hatteras ?

[Barney21]

Originally Posted by CHO827

everyone
thanks for the info so far, I am not immune to all the other issues gas/diesel just wanted to get the issue down to bare bones. If I have a choice, which I do, I'd diffidently go with diesel, cost of operate on a daily basis, safety, and range. but when I see 2 almost identical boats that are $55,000 apart it does prompt my nerdy spreadsheet cost comparison. of course any boat that I would put an offer on would have to have complete surveys done.
At some point in all this after x number of mile the diesel would have to be rebuilt and the gas replaced - and from what I have seen the 2 are about the same cost - so its even up. but again it all comes down to the condition at the time of purchase.

JMHO, I owned a 36ft sports fisher with 2 Crusader 454s in it for 5 years, it would cruise at 1350 RPM at 8-9 knots, it would use exactly the same amount of diesel on a simiar sized twin cummins give or take 1-2 litres an hour. Rebuild a gas engine ( no) buy a fully rebuilt 454 for a KG of Coffee or a rebuilt diesel for a crate of champagne.. Now if you run your 454s at 3500 rpm the fuel consumption will very quickly destroy your economy by a LOT!
However the noise of 2 454s will very quickly cause you to lose your sanity if you have any within an hour.

[RainDog]

I think the reason gas engines sell for less is because they are less reliable and don't last as long as diesel engines.

For a long range cruising boat, reliability is key. Nothing can ruin a cruise quite like a dead engine. Diesels are simple enough, that most of us can keep them running ourselves if we are willing to do our research.

Given the same boat, at the same price, always go for the diesel. However, you can for sure get a deal if the price break is big enough. For a $55k price difference, you might be able to repower and end up with brand new gas engines for the same price as 30-year-old diesels. That might be a good deal for you.

If you are not planning on wandering far from home, and plan to have most of your engine work professionally done, the $55k price difference might justify itself.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by CHO827

but when I see 2 almost identical boats that are $55,000 apart it does prompt my nerdy spreadsheet cost comparison.

I meant to comment on that earlier, too. Seems to me NEW boats often show a difference like that -- between gas and diesel -- but the disparity in cost between used boats isn't quite so much.

In the general range of boat size where both gas and diesels were offered IN THE SAME MODEL BOAT, I'd guess it's more often something like a $20K difference in asking prices for boats approx 15-20 years old. Just guessing, but you might cruise through yachtworld (for example) with that comparison in mind, see what you find...

Originally Posted by CHO827

I am not immune to all the other issues gas/diesel just wanted to get the issue down to bare bones.

Respectfully, I don't think you should do that. It's certainly appropriate to compare projected costs against your intended use case, but any boat is a system of systems... and how each style of engine fits into the overall system and your use case isn't just a question of costs (acquisition, maintenance, fuel) but also all the other factors that weigh in favor of one type or other.

Ref one of the other comments: there are a bazillion gas boats out there, well-insured, no problems. If gas is suitable for your use case, it's easy enough to manage safety-related issues... as long as you do it.


-Chris

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by CHO827

when I see 2 almost identical boats that are $55,000 apart it does prompt my nerdy spreadsheet cost comparison..

Does your nerdy spreadsheet have a cell that factors in resale value? Very few people keep boats forever and when (not if) you put the boat on the market your asking price will most likely reflect that same difference.

Of course you might not get the difference or maybe only part of it but 100% for certain your boat will be much more desirable on the market and sell faster than a comparable gas engine boat.

[datapete568b]

Look at Katie kroghans NordHaven’s Grand Banks, grand Alaskan
If you’d like a real long range cruiser I’m sure there are plenty others
And I think of the others have said forget gasoline

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by billknny

If you chose to not discuss or consider safely issue gas vs. diesel, engine life, maintenance, resell value and really only consider fuel cost vs. purchase cost, then of course you'd be crazy for even considering diesel power.

But if you ignore all those things, of course you'd be crazy too.

But, if you consider all the pros and cons and make a rational decision based on how you are going to use the boat, then you are not crazy, no matter what final decision you come to.

I would never own large boat that has volatile fuel below deck. We carry 400 gallons of diesel in five tanks. Fuel for the dinghy is on deck, not ever inside or in the lazarette. There are too many ways to make gasoline go boom.

[Cheechako]

Hmmm It surprises me an old Viking or Tolly (both great boats though!) is even selling for $55k much less a difference of $55k! Guess I'm out of the loop. Offer half.

Gas engines in boats wear out pretty fast, although if you are not trying to jump up on plane maybe not so fast as smaller boats doing that.

Be very careful about boats of that age , especially regarding:
Fuel tanks
Rotten stringers
Rotten Transoms.

Although Tolly didn't core their transoms with wood IIRC, which is a big plus.

[Suijin]

Four boats is not nearly enough of a sample size to start drawing conclusions about asking prices and market values for gas vs. diesel. Two identical boats, same make and model and comparable (advertised) condition with similar equipment can be priced so far from each other as to be ridiculous. Location matters, subjective owner and broker opinions matter etc.

Yes, diesel is going to command a higher price but how much has a lot of variables and I think the best you can do, within one make/model, is look at historical sales data for at least 10 examples. A broker can get you that information.

[CaptainJohn49]

Before I decided to buy a sailboat I thought a trawler was really neat until I figured how much fuel it takes to go 500 or a 1,000 miles. When you say fill her up you can be looking at $1,000, $2,000 $3.000 or more. When traveling (sailing or motoring) fuel can be 60% of the expense.

If you’re putting a down payment on the boat and financing the rest the diesel will have a higher payment but that will be offset by a much lower fuel bill. The fuel plus payment may very well be cheaper for the diesel.

Other expenses will roughly be the same between the two.

Just my thoughts.

CaptainJohn49

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by CHO827

everyone
thanks for the info so far, I am not immune to all the other issues gas/diesel just wanted to get the issue down to bare bones. If I have a choice, which I do, I'd diffidently go with diesel, cost of operate on a daily basis, safety, and range. but when I see 2 almost identical boats that are $55,000 apart it does prompt my nerdy spreadsheet cost comparison. of course any boat that I would put an offer on would have to have complete surveys done.
At some point in all this after x number of mile the diesel would have to be rebuilt and the gas replaced - and from what I have seen the 2 are about the same cost - so its even up. but again it all comes down to the condition at the time of purchase.

3,000hrs on a gas engine vs. 20,000hrs on a diesel, another spread sheet item.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by CaptainJohn49

Before I decided to buy a sailboat I thought a trawler was really neat until I figured how much fuel it takes to go 500 or a 1,000 miles. When you say fill her up you can be looking at $1,000, $2,000 $3.000 or more. When traveling (sailing or motoring) fuel can be 60% of the expense.

If you’re putting a down payment on the boat and financing the rest the diesel will have a higher payment but that will be offset by a much lower fuel bill. The fuel plus payment may very well be cheaper for the diesel.

Other expenses will roughly be the same between the two.

Just my thoughts.

CaptainJohn49

Toronto to Abacos - $1300 for fuel. The cheapest part of my last trip and about the same as a sailboat for the same trip. rarely see them sail on that jaunt

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by CHO827

Hi

Looked up specs for all and in general the
Crusaders at 8 to 9 knots gets about 5.6gph or 1.5 Naut. mile per gallon.

am I that crazy for even looking at gas?

===


In my opinion, yes. Your fuel burn specs for Crusaders are way off. Crusader 454s are typically rated at 350 horsepower. Run at 70% throttle, about 3200 RPM, they will burn over 17 gallons per hour each. I say this from experience with my own boats and also from friends with 454s. At the slower speeds you are quoting, total fuel burn would typically be 8 to 10 gallons per hour, higher in adverse wind or seas.


In addition to having a high fuel burn, you will also be under powered for a boat that size and have limited fuel range. We once owned a Bertram 33 with twin Crusader 454s. With a fuel capacity of 320 gallons, our safe operating range was only about 130 to 140 nautical miles. That is probably the single biggest advantage of diesel power in a boat of that type.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by CHO827

am I that crazy for even looking at gas?

No! The diesel of course is better, which is why they are more expensive. So the only thing really to consider is if having the diesels are worth $55K TO YOU.

There are billions of gas powered engines around, it isn't like they are totally unreliable

[LargeMarge]

You use the phrase "...selling diff...".

As long as you the buyer have the cash to purchase, you are not in the selling market. Any seller can gold-plate their product, any buyer can walk on by. Is this a different view for you?