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Old 16-02-2012, 13:04   #31
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

OP, great post and great spreadsheet.

There is a lot of knowledge on this board, and it is great that you are totally open to adapting it.

I just learned one thing from you and looking at your spreadsheet.

HOLY SH!T, $15K in fuel for that one trip!

It confirms my choice to obtain a sailboat. I can't imagine new sails and rigging replace every 10 years could come close to that kind of fuel use.
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Old 16-02-2012, 13:27   #32
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

15k must be an over estimate by far...

Look a standard 10 ton 36" Marine Trader trawler with long range fuel tanks:

Cruising Speed: 8
Maximum Speed: 10
Fuel Consump.: 2 gals/hour @ Cruise
# Strokes: 2-Stroke
Engine Make: Ford Lehman Diesel
Engine Size (Ea.): 120 hp
Fuel Type: Diesel
Fuel Tank: 400 gals


1300 miles (compare to spreadsheet) at 8 knots = 165 hours

2 gals/hour is 165h x 2g = 330 gals

For simplicity, lets say diesel is $5 for each gallon

That is 330 x $5 = US$ 1650

I`d rather do that than speed down on an express cruiser, or tansport it and pay 15 k for either if that is the case...

$1650 / 1300 miles = US $1,3 for each mile left behind.
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Old 16-02-2012, 13:30   #33
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

The fuel estimate was for a 48' Viking sport fisherman, which can burn 56 gallons an hour at 23 knots. You can plug in your own values once you decide on a boat.
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Old 16-02-2012, 13:35   #34
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

The spreadsheet has a gal/nm and not a gal/hr. I think the big difference is there.

Edit: This post was posted almost simultaneously as the last one from hud3
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Old 16-02-2012, 15:06   #35
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostviking View Post
15k must be an over estimate by far...

Look a standard 10 ton 36" Marine Trader trawler with long range fuel tanks:

Cruising Speed: 8
Maximum Speed: 10
Fuel Consump.: 2 gals/hour @ Cruise
# Strokes: 2-Stroke
Engine Make: Ford Lehman Diesel
Engine Size (Ea.): 120 hp
Fuel Type: Diesel
Fuel Tank: 400 gals


1300 miles (compare to spreadsheet) at 8 knots = 165 hours

2 gals/hour is 165h x 2g = 330 gals

For simplicity, lets say diesel is $5 for each gallon

That is 330 x $5 = US$ 1650

I`d rather do that than speed down on an express cruiser, or tansport it and pay 15 k for either if that is the case...

$1650 / 1300 miles = US $1,3 for each mile left behind.

WOW again naivety and biased (to your point of view)assumptions we have a 36 foot trawler doing 10 knots and cruising at 8 knots at 2 GPH

NICE - however reality will be a cruising speed of 6 knots a max of 8 knots perhaps 8.5 with a clean bottom and a clean prop and drinking fuel at well over 2 GPH As to 10 knots in your dreams.
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Old 16-02-2012, 15:45   #36
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
WOW again naivety and biased (to your point of view)assumptions we have a 36 foot trawler doing 10 knots and cruising at 8 knots at 2 GPH

NICE - however reality will be a cruising speed of 6 knots a max of 8 knots perhaps 8.5 with a clean bottom and a clean prop and drinking fuel at well over 2 GPH As to 10 knots in your dreams.
Well, that might be so. I was just looking at the ad for this one boat: 1978 Marine Trader 36 Double Cabin for Sale - Specifications and Photos - POP Yachts

Anyway. If it is less than 3 GPH i really don`t mind going slow. Anyway, still, if it beats 56 GPH or so, I am still happy.

Gas and petrol is dirt cheap in the US compared to Norway anyway, so I do not plan to get angry over the prices. It is ridiculous in Norway, about US$3 for one single liter, or about US$12 for a US gallon.
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Old 16-02-2012, 15:46   #37
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

A 36 Marine trader will not make 10 knots unless you drop it from a crane.
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Old 16-02-2012, 15:56   #38
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

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A 36 Marine trader will not make 10 knots unless you drop it from a crane.
Haha! That is funny!

I do not like to be in a hurry anyway. In time I will get a faster speed boat, but for now I would be fine in a trawler.
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:05   #39
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

The Marine Trader trawlers are a very interesting breed. They were built in Taiwan by a number of different families. Some of them are very good; some are much more problematic. If you find a good one, it could be just the right thing for you. One thing most of them have in common is their beauty...the teak work is usually very good. However, it does require maintenance so it will be important to find one which has been well taken care of.

The boat you referenced looks pretty good from the pictures and the description. The single Ford Lehman 120HP engine is a very well known and very reliable engine....if it's in good shape. Before buying the boat, you'd want at least two different surveys: one for the overall boat and one for the engine. These aren't cheap, but could save you a lot of money and heartaches, and no knowledgeable sailor buys a boat without a proper survey first.

The boat is said to do 8 knots cruising. The 10 knots you saw is Maximum Speed, i.e., with the engine fully cranked up. Both are assumed to be in still water, not on the ocean.

Counting on the intended path from Florida to the Virgins being against wind and seas -- and current -- most of the way, I think you'd be wise to count on no more than 6 knots average speed for the trip in this or similar trawlers.

Bill
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:12   #40
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Antares View Post
A 36 Marine trader will not make 10 knots unless you drop it from a crane.

actually i wrote unless you sail it over Niagara Falls but thought that was too cruel so removed it
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:16   #41
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

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Originally Posted by lostviking View Post
Well, that might be so. I was just looking at the ad for this one boat: 1978 Marine Trader 36 Double Cabin for Sale - Specifications and Photos - POP Yachts

i really don`t mind going slow.
Really - so where does that fit in with day sailing from marina to marina on your passage to the BVI's and outrunning weather systems
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:19   #42
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

Thank you Bill!

I plan to have surveyors do a general check up at the boat and engine. That is one of the reasons i want to buy in the US. First of all surveyors is normal in the US. In Norway they only come after the boat is sunk and recovered to estimate the cost of the damage, hehe!

The part about 6 knots is most informative. It is slow, but i kind of like the slow beat of the diesel engine.


As for outrunning weather systems I plan on doing that using the weather forecast and simple math. Not pure speed, i`ll swim faster than 6 knots, haha!
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:25   #43
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
The Marine Trader trawlers are a very interesting breed. They were built in Taiwan by a number of different families. Some of them are very good; some are much more problematic. If you find a good one, it could be just the right thing for you. One thing most of them have in common is their beauty...the teak work is usually very good. However, it does require maintenance so it will be important to find one which has been well taken care of.

The boat you referenced looks pretty good from the pictures and the description. The single Ford Lehman 120HP engine is a very well known and very reliable engine....if it's in good shape. Before buying the boat, you'd want at least two different surveys: one for the overall boat and one for the engine. These aren't cheap, but could save you a lot of money and heartaches, and no knowledgeable sailor buys a boat without a proper survey first.

The boat is said to do 8 knots cruising. The 10 knots you saw is Maximum Speed, i.e., with the engine fully cranked up. Both are assumed to be in still water, not on the ocean.

Counting on the intended path from Florida to the Virgins being against wind and seas -- and current -- most of the way, I think you'd be wise to count on no more than 6 knots average speed for the trip in this or similar trawlers.

Bill
Get a FULL engine survey including engine oil analysis Plan for 5 knots cruising speed 6 knots is far too optimistic for this passage. Then have a real hard look at this day sail passage plan IF you cant afford a down island boat and/or dont want to spend some sensible dollars with Dockwise shipping perhaps consider hiring a delivery skipper.
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Old 16-02-2012, 16:50   #44
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

Yeah, i plan to get a full survey. Especially since it is a single engine, if i opt for the Marine Trader.

The passage plan is now just roughly forming in my head. I have not done any math or calculations to it yet. I still got good time to read up on it and ask my questions in forums like this.

I cant afford a down island boat or a delivery captain. Trawlers are a lot more expensive at the Islands and therefore I plan to buy one where it is buyers marked. That looks like mainland USA.

I want the trip anyway, so I am looking forward to it
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Old 17-02-2012, 04:06   #45
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Re: Florida to British Virgin Islands - Route on Power ?

I agree with Bill Trayfors' reassessment that with your experience you can probably do it. And that you should take your time. I made essentially the same trip and for a variety of reasons hurried it too much and now regret that I didn't spend more time. I also didn't have enough experience when I started so ended up paying a delivery captain to sail with me for the first part of the journey. It's one way to learn but can have its own problems.

I know little about the details of trawlers but my experience on that trip is that you are heading against currents and wind for the majority of it. So, if people think that cruising speed is 6 kt then you'd better count on less than 5 because you'll face a 1 kt or more current against you for the majority of the time once you turn east at the TCI. And, even at 10 kt I don't think you can hop from marina to marina. From Provo (TCI) you'd have to go to Monte Cristi, DR and that's over 110 nautical miles. You wouldn't want to come into any port, once you leave Florida, in the dark. That means an overnight crossing. That trip is outstanding but... You have to cross the Caicos banks and you must do that in daylight or seriously risk hitting a coral head. And you wouldn't want to think about making land in the DR until 6 or 7 AM. Then from Monte Cristi to Sea World. Then I don't think there is another real marina (going east) until you get to Ponce, PR. My suggestion: learn to anchor, get a good dinghy, plan on lots of nice stops in kind of remote places along the way, plan on at least 2 months and enjoy yourself. It's a real slog of a trip once you turn east!!

I also question whether you can spend $40K on a boat and make that trip. I've been watching a friend in our marina in PR working on someone's boat and as soon as he fixes one thing he finds another that really needs repair. You are likely to find that you need $20K to get things in shape and to set things up to your liking. Once you get to the Virgins you may have more time but the price and availability of parts is going to be a lot worse than in Florida. Tortola is a center of sailing and I'm sure that you will be able to find parts and mechanics, welders, etc. But it won't be cheap! For example, you could easily spend $10K on electronics if you want any integration of GPS, chart plotter and depth gauge. And a short wave radio is almost certainly wanted for weather and safety, that's probably $2K right there.

I admit that I made essentially the same trip without the needed experience and that I was never in serious danger. So, I think that you can do it. And I think you will probably not regret the experience but keep asking questions and pay attention to folks here because there is a lot of experience.

Bill
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