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Old 22-01-2016, 14:38   #61
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

Got me thinking. We have had 4 people die at our marina over the last 25 years and two very close calls. Can't think of any one I know of drowning away from the docks.

Funny how we sailed 40 years ago and now we won't sail 60 miles in open water without 5 times the equipment.

Going to the Bahamas, I'm surprised more don't recommend the InReach. You can send out SOS and communicate with the SAR. You can also text friends and family your plans and location. EPRIBs, SPOTs, InReach are getting so cheap, guess no reason not to get one, but not having would not keep me from making the trip.
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Old 22-01-2016, 14:41   #62
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
You fellas have your own rules and I have mine...

I think its funny that people get stressed that I vocalize I think they are stupid for not carrying an EPIRB. Attack my rules or theories all you want, fact is, none of these posts have changed that that I think being on the ocean without and EPRIB is moronic!
Agree with Skip.

I actually have several inflatable PFDs, tethers, jack lines, a PLB, and a pair of AIS MOB units that we wear when conditions warrant (standalone watch, night time, bad weather, etc.). We don't go as far as wearing PFDs every time we leave the dock.

Your reasons for what you have and how you use it is your decision. Discussing the reasons for your choices are fine. Calling others stupid/moronic (out loud) for not agreeing with you crosses the line.

IMO, of course!
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Old 22-01-2016, 15:29   #63
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by puffcard View Post
Got me thinking. We have had 4 people die at our marina over the last 25 years and two very close calls. Can't think of any one I know of drowning away from the docks.

Funny how we sailed 40 years ago and now we won't sail 60 miles in open water without 5 times the equipment.

Going to the Bahamas, I'm surprised more don't recommend the InReach. You can send out SOS and communicate with the SAR. You can also text friends and family your plans and location. EPRIBs, SPOTs, InReach are getting so cheap, guess no reason not to get one, but not having would not keep me from making the trip.
While my previous post was somewhat tongue in cheek, the comments about falling off at the dock were totally serious. Both cases I know of personally happened late at night when no one was around to hear or help. Both likely involved alcohol and probably the victims hit their heads or were otherwise incapacitate by the fall.

Certainly sailors do fall off at sea and I am not minimizing that risk and the need to deal with it but based on my limited experience seems more risky around the docks.
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Old 22-01-2016, 16:25   #64
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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First, you are 100% correct that you can make the rules on your boat. Like the old sailor's saying, "different ships, different long splices."

However, don't you think it's just a bit insulting to call others stupid and moronic for not setting the same rules as you do? Personally I'm not stressed at all, just amused but you seem to think it odd or funny that insulting others elicits a sarcastic response?

I certainly don't think carrying an EPIRB is a bad thing but stupid to leave the dock without one? Depending on the boat, the area, the season and the voyage I wouldn't hesitate to go without one. If going offshore I would carry a fixed and a waterproof, handheld VHF and a few other items appropriate to the trip and would take the EPIRB if I had one. Crossing the ocean? Don't leave home without it.

By the way, there are some very knowledgeable, experienced and careful world cruisers that make the conscious decision to sail without EPIRBs or life rafts. Some feel that it makes them subconsciously dependent to some degree on outside help or rescue and can lower their attention on fully preparing their own boat. Some also do not want to endanger the lives of potential rescuers based on a personal choice to take to the sea for fun. Of course if you have children on board and possibly guests this philosophy may not be appropriate.

So, if it makes you happy, call me a moron all day long and I'll wear the title proudly.
I believe we call people names all the time. Why should this be any different. It's never a issue until is a issue. Than we all sit here saying what an idiot why would he not have had a epirb.
And just to clarify there are times based on your post you might call some one stupid, now we can just decide on exactly when it's appropriate.


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Old 22-01-2016, 17:31   #65
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
I find it very funny that you are comparing an EPIRB to a helmet.

In any case, I will still think people stupid for not having one on the ocean and you are free to boat without one. Opinions differ and I accept that.

As to other safety devices. We carry flares, an airhorn, a vuvuzela, whistles on every life jacket, a light clipped to every lifejacket, and a PLB worn by the on watch person. Lifejackets are worn whenever the boat is moving and we are out of the cabin, no exceptions.
Why do you find the EPIRB / helmet comparison funny?

A helmet is a personal safety device designed to prevent head injury. Head injuries are common in motor vehicle accidents. Motor vehicle accidents are very common.

Extremely relevant to this conversation, and your strong, insulting stance on EPIRBs.

Why aren't you wearing a helmet when driving your car?

1. You do not have a harness and tether to keep everyone on-board?

2. No MOB pole to be able to locate someone in the water?

3. No smoke signal?

4. No water activated strobe on every PFD?

5. No loud hailer?

6. No vessel name on every device having positive flotation.

7. No ship's bell?

Does your lack of these common, low cost, safety devices make you insane and a moron?

By your stance it should.

By my stance, I think you should probably have them, but since you are responsible for the safety of your vessel and crew, I leave it to your discretion, pretty much without judgement.

I guess that makes me mentally competent, and perhaps even intelligent.
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Old 22-01-2016, 17:38   #66
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by scuba0_1 View Post
I believe we call people names all the time. Why should this be any different. It's never a issue until is a issue. Than we all sit here saying what an idiot why would he not have had a epirb.
And just to clarify there are times based on your post you might call some one stupid, now we can just decide on exactly when it's appropriate.


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Thank you!

Its CF, I usually just shake my head and move on.. I appreciate the support!
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Old 22-01-2016, 19:20   #67
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Why do you find the EPIRB / helmet comparison funny?

A helmet is a personal safety device designed to prevent head injury. Head injuries are common in motor vehicle accidents. Motor vehicle accidents are very common.

Extremely relevant to this conversation, and your strong, insulting stance on EPIRBs.

Why aren't you wearing a helmet when driving your car?

1. You do not have a harness and tether to keep everyone on-board?

2. No MOB pole to be able to locate someone in the water?

3. No smoke signal?

4. No water activated strobe on every PFD?

5. No loud hailer?

6. No vessel name on every device having positive flotation.

7. No ship's bell?

Does your lack of these common, low cost, safety devices make you insane and a moron?

By your stance it should.

By my stance, I think you should probably have them, but since you are responsible for the safety of your vessel and crew, I leave it to your discretion, pretty much without judgement.

I guess that makes me mentally competent, and perhaps even intelligent.
I can actually answer this partly. A helmet as in bike helmet would actually do harm if your in a car. Just as when ridding a bike you very likely will break your neck but you will live. In a car if the helmet which won't give will also break your neck with the air bag expanding as it won't wrap your face it will push it back with massive force. So in car you would have to wear a neck brace, and a 4 point harness this keeping you from turning your head thus impairing your road driving. That's why they make cars today to be driven with out helmet and more air bags.
As far as all that other safety equipment I think it's all.. Oh never mind..


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Old 22-01-2016, 19:47   #68
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by scuba0_1 View Post
I believe we call people names all the time. Why should this be any different. It's never a issue until is a issue. Than we all sit here saying what an idiot why would he not have had a epirb.
And just to clarify there are times based on your post you might call some one stupid, now we can just decide on exactly when it's appropriate.
Well you may speak for yourself but as well as I can remember the last time I called someone stupid to their face was maybe the 3rd or 4th grade. I do confess I might comment on someone's good judgment to my wife or friend but do try to refrain from insulting someone directly.
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Old 22-01-2016, 23:00   #69
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Well you may speak for yourself but as well as I can remember the last time I called someone stupid to their face was maybe the 3rd or 4th grade. I do confess I might comment on someone's good judgment to my wife or friend but do try to refrain from insulting someone directly.
Yep I think we see people doing stupid things all day, just because we might not say it to them I'm not sure make s a different, but I would bet money every time you or any of us read our watch on tv that some one has died or came so close because they weren't rescued and if they had a safety calling device And not a 2 million dollar SAR they would have been picked up in 2hrs. We all think, Stupid.

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Old 22-01-2016, 23:26   #70
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Well you may speak for yourself but as well as I can remember the last time I called someone stupid to their face was maybe the 3rd or 4th grade. I do confess I might comment on someone's good judgment to my wife or friend but do try to refrain from insulting someone directly.
Ahh.... Yup.. Lets not insult someone.. Sounds like our society.. Imply that I'm a child, no worries, didn't insult me to my face!

I have no problem calling someone a moron when I see them welding in their garage without a fire extinguisher, or living in a house without functional smoke detectors, or working under their car without jackstands.. Guess it will be Ok when the house burns down or they die under their car.. They weren't insulted..

Our world needs to call a spade a spade more often.... or maybe not! Darwin awards would be much less comical that way!

Anyway.. This thread and argument has WELL passed its usefulness. I take my leave and head back to cruising! Thanks for the entertainment!
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Old 22-01-2016, 23:30   #71
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by scuba0_1 View Post
I can actually answer this partly. A helmet as in bike helmet would actually do harm if your in a car. Just as when ridding a bike you very likely will break your neck but you will live. In a car if the helmet which won't give will also break your neck with the air bag expanding as it won't wrap your face it will push it back with massive force. So in car you would have to wear a neck brace, and a 4 point harness this keeping you from turning your head thus impairing your road driving. That's why they make cars today to be driven with out helmet and more air bags.
As far as all that other safety equipment I think it's all.. Oh never mind..


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Who said anything about a bicycle helmet?

I'm thinkin Nascar! ;-)

Accidental gybes are common on sailboats.

Accidental gybes cause head injuries.

Perhaps every sailboat should have air bags mounted on the boom, everyone in the cockpit should have to wear a lap belt to keep them from standing up and getting whacked, and just in case that fails, as a third line of defense, they should have to where a helmet.

Why should this (and the two preceding safety measures) not be implemented by one who considers an EPIRB, a 20th (or so) line of defense item in the event of a hull breach, "essential" for a Florida/Bahamas voyage?

I hope everyone realizes that I do not believe seatbelts, helmets, and air bags are necessary on sailboats, despite how many injuries they may prevent.

I am simply trying to emphasize that what may be a very logical voluntary safety measure to one, may not be to another, and that's OK.
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Old 23-01-2016, 07:26   #72
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Ahh.... Yup.. Lets not insult someone.. Sounds like our society.. Imply that I'm a child, no worries, didn't insult me to my face!

I have no problem calling someone a moron when I see them welding in their garage without a fire extinguisher, or living in a house without functional smoke detectors, or working under their car without jackstands.. Guess it will be Ok when the house burns down or they die under their car.. They weren't insulted..

Our world needs to call a spade a spade more often.... or maybe not! Darwin awards would be much less comical that way!

Anyway.. This thread and argument has WELL passed its usefulness. I take my leave and head back to cruising! Thanks for the entertainment!
First of all, I was not even responding to you when mentioned 3rd grade.

Now, let me pose a question. If you were working on your car and someone came by and said, "Hey you stupid moron, your doing it wrong and you're going to set your house on fire" or someone came by and said, "Excuse me but did you notice that the hose next to the spot you're welding is starting to smoke and might start a fire", which one would you be most likely to respond to?

Calling a spade a spade can be done with tact and good manners and probably more productively.
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Old 23-01-2016, 11:39   #73
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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First of all, I was not even responding to you when mentioned 3rd grade.

Now, let me pose a question. If you were working on your car and someone came by and said, "Hey you stupid moron, your doing it wrong and you're going to set your house on fire" or someone came by and said, "Excuse me but did you notice that the hose next to the spot you're welding is starting to smoke and might start a fire", which one would you be most likely to respond to?

Calling a spade a spade can be done with tact and good manners and probably more productively.
now that I agree with. What we say to our selves is never what we say to the person hopefully, but this is the internet and that's the problem with all this non face to face interaction. Unfortunately it's probably going to get worse which is why we all want a sail boat and get away from it. I

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Old 23-01-2016, 11:41   #74
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

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now that I agree with. What we say to our selves is never what we say to the person hopefully, but this is the internet and that's the problem with all this non face to face interaction. Unfortunately it's probably going to get worse which is why we all want a sail boat and get away from it. I

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Old 23-01-2016, 13:54   #75
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Re: Florida to Bimini, Bahamas

Some people call others moronic.
Some people call others obnoxious.
Oh well.

On another note, I once heard of a young man who wore a motorcycle helmet during night watches. Why? Because he had been hit once too often in the head by flying fish lol.
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