Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-07-2016, 10:59   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Daytona Beach, Fl
Boat: Irwin 38 Mk II CC 38'
Posts: 253
Send a message via Skype™ to PuttingDoctor
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

As mentioned previously it is unlikely you'll find financing for this boat without other assets to secure the loan. A survey would be money well spent as well as being a negotiating tool.

It's a stretch to figure out why they have valued her so high. What special equipment is this boat equipped with that would pump up the value? Are any of the fixtures gold plated?

Good luck, keep searching.
__________________

__________________
s/v Sea Castle II
POC: Toronto, ON
PuttingDoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 11:28   #17
Registered User
 
Sailor647's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hailing Port: Portland, Oregon
Boat: Norseman 400
Posts: 197
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Real Estate APPRECIATES, so it can frequently be sold at a price higher than the payoff of the loan.
Hah! Not always true! Anyone remember 2008?

But, you're right - boats, cars, and planes almost always depreciate in value, because things age, get used, and wear out. Even houses that are not maintained and updated lose value and depreciate.
__________________

__________________
Sailor647 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 11:56   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Clayton, NY
Boat: Beneteau OC 41
Posts: 210
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Lots of posts on this, so forgive me if I'm restating what others have already said, but in my recent experience, 80% would be the maximum loan to value. I think the age of the boat would also be a problem. Your best bet would be to work with a loan broker (I worked with Chris Stevens at Sterling Associates and had good luck) who can hook you up with a second-tier lender. The BoatUS loan folks are also top-notch, but they work with what I would call the first-tier lenders who are a little more discriminating. The 2008 meltdown has left the banks pretty gun-shy.

Good luck.
__________________
robgrant1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 12:40   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Chris-Craft were crap. Or lets just say not built to last long. They were mass produced for a price competitive market. The plywood ones lasted about five to ten years. With lots of maintenance you can get them to survive longer, but not much. Uncle had a 1956 cc sedan. Lasted with a ton of labor till 2004 when its bottom literally gave out. The glass ones were even worse made. Thin glass, not well bonded. YOu hit a wave hard and your cabinets will work lose, not to mention your engine bed. Go look at some real boats like Hatteras or Bertram yachts. Get a real boat, not some dock queen.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 12:52   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 61
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

If the bank values it at 40k I would go back to the seller and tell him that. He is obviously overpriced. If he won't lower the price to the bank valuation walk away.

Its not worth the hassle. As other post have stated there are tons of better boats for less money. My advice, walk away, fire your broker because he is not looking out for your best interest and keep looking?

Good luck on your search and fair winds
__________________
Hamish_ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 12:57   #21
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid at SailAway View Post
Yes, that's what the columns represent. The web site, Sold boats is not available to the public. As a broker I have access. It's a great tool to keep a client from overpaying and also a guide line for sellers..
Maybe not completely legit, but my Broker found where the PO bought the boat, so we knew what he paid for it.
This is another reason I believe that having a buyers broker is a good thing
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 14:22   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fl- various marinas
Boat: morgan O/I 33' sloop
Posts: 1,100
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Comparisons to a house mortgage are inappropriate. Houses generally appreciate (not always but mostly), boats always depreciate. If you found a banker willing to loan 80% you had a great offer. In 5 years the loan balance will be close to if not greater than the market value of your boat. I think your banker is betting on your general credit much more than the appraisal of the boat.
__________________
Dave22q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 14:35   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 412
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

US banks and other licensed lenders are prohibited from making loans on any basis other than an percentage of the appraised or surveyed market value. Sometimes they loan 100% or more on homes as we found out in 2008-2009. Sometimes appraisals are phony and sometimes buyers submit fraudulent loan applications which is a felony.
__________________
jmschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 15:11   #24
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

John, you may remember a slight crash in the economy here in the US around 2008-2009? Stock market down big time. Hyperinflating housing market down. Homes that were bought for $100k, remortgaged for $250k with the year, banks crashing and finance problems and government intervention? Scads of bankruptcies and foreclosures?


Among the federal rules that finally changed to make sure this will never happen again (ha), all banks and financial institutions have to meet new federal standards regarding how much money in put in the down payment, how much cash they keep on hand to cover loan failures, and, they have to show that a loan was reasonable. No more of the "no documentation" loans, you have to prove the tooth fairy really is paying you reliable vigorish every week.


So whatever you knew about home loans...in the last few years the entire lending industry has changed. Condos and Co-op boards also have been requesting higher down payments (20% is not uncommon) for the same reasons.


This is all designed to ensure that if you take your asset (home, boat, plane) out for a wild part, trash it, walk away, and the lender has to try recovering their loan investment? Whatever is left, can be retaken and sold PROMPTLY. And if they can get 80% of the market price for a used whatever....that's still unlikely to happen.


So, expect to ante up.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 15:11   #25
Registered User
 
Kokanee's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Adelaide Australia
Boat: Cuddles 30ft Motor Sailer
Posts: 216
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEasley View Post
Apparently, it's standard procedure that we would come up with the 50-60k difference???? Is this the normal process?
This is often the case, but I would not recommend it.
I'd suggest that it may be foolish to borrow anything to buy a 30 year old boat which can depreciate very quickly if not constantly maintained.
__________________
Kokanee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 15:49   #26
Registered User
 
sailpower's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 786
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Are you looking at Arch Support in Jacksonville?

That looks like a pretty nice boat and it was repowered with Cummins diesels in 1998.

When you are looking a soldboat.com data it is important to specify gas or diesel as this model was available both ways. Also note that CC also built a 42 SF during this period so you have to separate those out as well.

The dealer who has Arch Support listed for $99,000 sold a 1985 model named No Drama last July for $65,000. No Drama was repowered with DD 6V71’s.

Without seeing the boat it seems like something around 70k would be about right.

This model was previously built by Uniflite who went out of business. CC bought the molds, made some changes and put them back into production.

Arch Support was built in 1985 as a 1986 model so has the updated flybridge which makes it more desirable.

These boats are a solid Chevrolet quality with a great layout.
__________________
sailpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 16:13   #27
Registered User
 
wunderluster's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida
Boat: CSY 33
Posts: 167
Send a message via MSN to wunderluster
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

I have to agree with sailpower. A little research goes a long way towards getting a true comparison from Sold Boats. A one year difference in a manufacturing year can be major, or not. Gas vs. diesel value differences are dramatic and rightly so.

Your broker should show you the Sold Boat report with the proper filters. He or she can print the listings for comparable boats so a true comparison can be made and not just show you a generic list.

A buyer's broker can save you a lot of money and time if its done right.

As for using a broker so you can have someone to sue, as Reed1v suggested, is ridiculous. If you have a survey and sea trial and you accept the vessel based on the results you will be hard pressed to find the broker at fault. If you buy without a survey and sea trial then you just have to man up and accept the results of your bad decision.
__________________
wunderluster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 16:17   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 368
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Maybe not completely legit, but my Broker found where the PO bought the boat, so we knew what he paid for it.
This is another reason I believe that having a buyers broker is a good thing
That's legit. That's a broker doing his due diligence and looking out for his clients best interest. As brokers we get beat up quite a bit on here, but there are good ones out there who do care. It's the bad apples that spoil the bunch...
__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 16:28   #29
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 368
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
1.The boat you are looking at probably worth around $40k at most in this market. Not a well made boat to say the least.
2. For a 30 year old boat, surprised a bank would loan you money.
3. Doubt if you will be able to insure it for anything close to asking price, assuming you can find insurance.
4. Old, big power boats are not a favorite of any lender. Which is why most of them take decades to sell; and if sold, at a fraction of original asking price.
5. That boat is a very standard design so shop around, especially for one that has been on the market for at least 5 years. Submit an offer around $38k with survey, with test run, with free title guarantee. And always from a boat broker so you have someone whom you can sue if it turns out to be a worthless piece of plastic.

With respect to #5 on the list. The broker doesn't guarantee the condition of the boat, so why would he be sued? Most of the time all the broker knows about the boat is what the seller has told him. Might be true or might not. The only time a broker has intimate knowledge of the boat is right after survey. Then he is on the same page as the buyer and seller concerning condition. Even after survey if something is discovered that the surveyor missed, it would be very difficult to sue the surveyor. The only caveat may be if he missed something that was totally obvious or readily apparent. Even then it would be hard. They have clauses in their contract to protect them from this. The reason is a surveyor is not going to catch every little thing wrong with any particular boat.
__________________
In Florida headed south for the Keys, then north...
www.elcaminoblog.com
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2016, 16:49   #30
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In Myrtle Beach, then southbound
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 368
Re: Financing question. Is this true???

Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderluster View Post
I have to agree with sailpower. A little research goes a long way towards getting a true comparison from Sold Boats. A one year difference in a manufacturing year can be major, or not. Gas vs. diesel value differences are dramatic and rightly so.

Your broker should show you the Sold Boat report with the proper filters. He or she can print the listings for comparable boats so a true comparison can be made and not just show you a generic list.

A buyer's broker can save you a lot of money and time if its done right.

As for using a broker so you can have someone to sue, as Reed1v suggested, is ridiculous. If you have a survey and sea trial and you accept the vessel based on the results you will be hard pressed to find the broker at fault. If you buy without a survey and sea trial then you just have to man up and accept the results of your bad decision.
You're correct, I didn't apply all the filters. I just wanted to show how outlandish the 100k asking price is. If this were my deal I would have applied filters and used model years 1985,1986 and 1987 as well. Kind of a bracket if you will.
__________________

__________________
Sid at SailAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
financing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Energy Monitors and true battery state question Zanshin Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 29 24-05-2016 07:08
Seller Financing? kenackr Boat Ownership & Making a Living 19 27-04-2014 10:31
Financing a boat for liveaboard sneuman Boat Ownership & Making a Living 58 19-07-2012 15:57
Financing Older Boats linuxchiq Off Topic Forum 14 08-08-2008 06:30
Financing Experiences & Suggestions Chuteman Boat Ownership & Making a Living 8 28-09-2006 11:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.