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Old 29-05-2011, 14:11   #31
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

c'mon guys! the guy is sitting in brazil realistically all he needs is the basics,not $10-15000 dollar systems.

a laptop system he should be able to set up for max $1000 dollars,and auto pilot capable for his size boat max $3000 or less.

who needs networked systems or expensive chart software.
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Old 29-05-2011, 14:46   #32
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Bem Vindo!
This website may be of interest to you!

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Old 29-05-2011, 14:51   #33
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

I would advise to use stand alone electronics with integration capabilities. I have been working on upgrading my system and have been looking at the complete integrated systems and my ET who is also a friend advised against the systems, due to their vulnerability. So have your GPS integrated with the radar, but keep them separate. I would use an open array radar over a dome radar. It really depends on your budget. I have sailed all over the pacific with nothing more than a 60'/60 fathom depth finder and a short wave radio for the time signature, for the celestial nav. I have also crossed the Atlantic with all the bells and whistles including Nobletec software on a laptop and a hockey puck gps antenna, and it works fine. For entry level ease, I would think a nice garmin GPS plotter would be a good start (get one with the ability to put different chart cards in for flexability) combined with a good radar, furuno is my choice. You can integrate the 2 so there is a lollipop in the radar screen that corresponds to your waypoint. The rest can be added as there is a perceived need or convenience. The electronics world changes at a very fast pace and unless you have an unlimited budget, you will never be able to keep up with all the latest and greatest toys.
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Old 29-05-2011, 15:04   #34
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Quote:
. For entry level ease, I would think a nice garmin GPS plotter would be a good start (get one with the ability to put different chart cards in for flexability) combined with a good radar, furuno is my choice. You can integrate the 2 so there is a lollipop in the radar screen that corresponds to your waypoint. The rest can be added as there is a perceived need or convenience. The electronics world changes at a very fast pace and unless you have an unlimited budget, you will never be able to keep up with all the latest and greatest toys.
Sorry this doesnt make sense. You are mixing up integration and redundancy. It the case you mentioned above, you would be better getting 2x Garmin chartplotters and a Garmin radar, instead of 1 x garmin plotter and 1 x furuno radar. In your case a failure of one device leaves you without that function. IN my suggestion, you have a seperate plotter and radar, let if you loose a screen you can swop either the charts or the radar over to the other, and hey presto up and running with no loss of functionality. ( and youd save a few dollars as well).


You are much better having multiple similar units networked together, then having differnt potentially incompatible units. ( its why computer networks were initially invented, to bring redundancy).

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Old 29-05-2011, 15:12   #35
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

who needs a radar anyway,try looking out the window for simplicity............

or plotter when you have cheap charts of the area you are cruising in?
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Old 29-05-2011, 15:36   #36
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What I found is mixed stuff is compatible . I have garmin 4208, with radar,ray depth with standalone display but networked, miltech ais linked to garmin, autohelm auto pilot.linked to garmin. I have a back up hydraulic ram that is unknown brand that works with autohelm. I got a yacht specialties pedestal a Danforth binacle and amsteel steering cables. I got it all one piece at a time and it cost me a a bit more then a dime. It's a 78,80,81,82 sailing machine. It all went together just fine.
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Old 29-05-2011, 17:11   #37
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Whole less than the sum of its parts...

So far I've gone with electronics that are separated from each other. The only integrated unit has been a Raymarine Bidata, and the log on that fouls within weeks. Would have been much better off fitting a depth only and welding up the hole for the log.

The integrated gear is much more expensive, complicated, tricky to install and (as I found) individual components may not suit your needs.

Its got to be a lot easier to trouble shoot an individual component in a rough sea at night than an integrated system that can be difficult in a marina.

For key electronic items (Autopilot, radar, AIS, Plotter, VHF, depth...) that are exposed to the elements and are going to be necessary for safety individual items of gear from an established manufacturer that has been on the market for a while is my choice.

In retrospect a VHF radio with integrated AIS transponder would have been nice but, surprise, no one makes one.

The only disadvantage to individual components has to be that they take up much more space. Oh, and they're not as pretty.
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Old 29-05-2011, 18:42   #38
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Re: Whole less than the sum of its parts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
The only disadvantage to individual components has to be that they take up much more space. Oh, and they're not as pretty.
And they often consume more power. And they may provide less redundancy, not more (unless you duplicate the individual units). It all depends on the system.

I have no problem with individual instruments -- my own boat has some integrated stuff, and some stand-alone. It's (usually) all good, and there is no perfect solution.

I hope the OP comes back and tells us what he ended up with.
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Old 29-05-2011, 18:49   #39
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
I would advise to use stand alone electronics with integration capabilities.
Quote:
For entry level ease
Cough cough

For entry level ease I think we need to go back to post #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Mariners have crossed oceans with the stars and a piece of string with lead on the end long before the days of electronics.

Simple reliable and common sense today could be
inexpensive depth sounder/fishfinder
Auto pilot
2 hand held GPS, 1 for redundancy
paper charts
A ruler, pencil and protractor
hand bearing compass
Binoculars
VHF radio.

Cheap, simple and reliable
NOT a system that will need an additional year at work with associated expenses to purchase
Then install
and then maintain and upgrade

But I may be wrong
Maybe today's yachties cant go anywhere without the little line running across the screen .
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Old 30-05-2011, 01:04   #40
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

What I was suggesting was a simple GPS plotter by Garmin, which are user friendly and reliable and able to communicate with other electronics. I have been hearing of problems with the Garmin radars. Hence the Furuno, which has set the industry standard for many years. There is no redundancy. That is why you would plot a position on a paper chart every 2 to 4 hours, and use the gray matter between your ears to observe and keep track of the elements and conditions, your position, rate of advance, set, drift and ETA and so on.
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Old 30-05-2011, 01:26   #41
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Maybe today's yachties cant go anywhere without the little line running across the screen.
You are correct. Find the next marina on the chartplotter. Press GOTO.

My MacBook running OpenCPN is connected to the autopilot, I suppose. But I'd never use it linked. I look at the chart with my eyes. Measure a course angle. Compare it to the COG. Go outside to the helm. Compare it to heading. Maybe tap a few port or starboard clicks into the autopilot. Fall back asleep. Repeat as necessary. No helm station needed. Network is nice, but is pretty useless too.
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Old 30-05-2011, 06:37   #42
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
What I was suggesting was a simple GPS plotter by Garmin, which are user friendly and reliable and able to communicate with other electronics. I have been hearing of problems with the Garmin radars. Hence the Furuno, which has set the industry standard for many years. There is no redundancy. That is why you would plot a position on a paper chart every 2 to 4 hours, and use the gray matter between your ears to observe and keep track of the elements and conditions, your position, rate of advance, set, drift and ETA and so on.

As I said , if you are going to buy a radar and a chartplotter, it makes no sense whatso ever to buy different makes, if either the plotter or the radar fail you loose that function.

For less money two Garmins MFD and a Garmin radar , give you more bang for your buck. Garmin make excellant radars ( actually I beleive JRC make them). I know I have two. As to Furuno setting the standard, that might have been the case some years ago, but much less so today as there is a big difference between Furunos leisure units and their commercial ones.


As to using a pencil, I fail to see how that can replace the loss of a radar!!!
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:55   #43
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Only a fool would try to replace a radar with a pencil.
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Old 30-05-2011, 11:11   #44
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Cough cough

For entry level ease I think we need to go back to post #2

NOT a system that will need an additional year at work with associated expenses to purchase
Then install
and then maintain and upgrade
Or perhaps not. Look at the OP's second post:

Quote:
The boat will have a 6 KVA genset to run A/C. In the tropics near the equator is not easy to sleep without them most of the nights. Not some much for cooling but to extract humidity. There is also a 3000 watt inverter and a house dedicated battery bank; 4 x 150 A/hour. There are very few 110 V. appliances. Refrigerator and freezer are 24V.
From the navigation electronics wish list, I have already a Simrad AP28 autopilot and a NX40 to be used as dedicated fishfinder/GPS on the fly bridge. I need now to decide about the inside bridge and I am thinking about going with an economical and reliable stand alone radar/chart/GPS, most probably another Simrad to avoid diversity.


He's not talking about "handheld GPS" entry-level.
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Old 30-05-2011, 18:49   #45
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Re: Electronics ! How Much is Enough ?

Mr Columbus sailed with very few electronics as did Mr Magellan. Don't have to spend thousands buy what makes you comfortable
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