Efficient Powerboats vs Efficient Sailboats (Running Cost Comparison)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Fair enough, my last cat was a 10 m Simpson ground effect sailing cat that we built. While it was fantastic and we did cruise it several months at a time,in reality it was no live aboard [for us anyway] 50 l of water ,a couple of cartons of belly wash an 8ft dinghy and o/b and food for two for 2 weeks was fine, she'd still win rum in fun races up and down Queensland coast, but put a 3rd or 4th body on board [as we did when sailing to new caledonia] and she suffered .

This boat sailed quite happily at 6 knots to windward in 10 knots of breeze without the extra bodys, while most other cruisers had the motors going, unless they were large light ULDBs or big light multi's.

I'm a boatbuilder by trade and did the numbers on building a 50 ft sailing cat with 40 ft accomidation 40 hp diesels and big rotating mast, andersen winches,nice square top main,screechers etc that we,d need to maintain good sailing speeds in light air and figured we could ditch the rig and other bits, modify the underwater shapes in last 12 ft, up the diesels to 65 hp/ side, continue the cabin roof till past the back beam [plenty of shade in tropics] and have about $60,000 Aud to buy diesel. We also figured on replacing sails every six years and rigging wire every five years, so near enough to another $ 20,000... or $4000/year. Reckon we'll cruise around 10kn and 14kn on the perfect day and shouldnt suck down to much diesel.

Also we get to go out to the reef in calm weather instead of 20 knots.The ones we want to go back to and stay awhile are about 300nm offshore, carry the big dinghy [11ft with 10hp o/b] and be able to have a few extra solar panel on roof to run that big fridge and freezer I've always lusted for.[ got to have ice in the rum and coke.]

I have some pics in my photo album of where we're up to ,but there will be a low 4 person flybridge up top so we can see reef easily. A bit of wind and rain shouldnt bother us, we have good wet weather gear and am used to getting wet after 30 years of sailing.

I welcome any comments

Dave

If it were all about cost, then we would definitely just get on Easy Jet and fly there. 200 mile days? A Boeing 737 can make a 2,000 mile day, at a fraction of the seat/mile cost. Neither sail nor power can even come close.

For many of us, maybe most of us, the sport is all about what it feels and sounds like. I am thinking back to a leg in November up the Solent running before a 40 knot wind, surfing on the waves at 11 knots, the sound of the wake gurgling in the scuppers, the feel of the power of the wind tugging on the backstay, surging the boat forward, no mechanical sounds . . .

that's priceless, and makes all the outrageous money we spend keeping up our boats worthwhile. I think fuel and so forth is not really the main issue.

Your powercat sounds cool, love the redundant engines and efficiency under power (no rigging to push through the air) and the increased stability. But to my taste, there would be one huge thing missing.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If it were all about cost, then we would definitely just get on Easy Jet and fly there. 200 mile days?

I disagree

Of course its about cost

Can you afford to catch the plane and then spend the $$ to live in a large waterfront hotel for the rest of your days?
Can you then afford to charter a large private comfortable catamaran to tour the islands when you want?
I cant, I needed a boat.

For many of us, maybe most of us, the sport ......

I am not doing it as a sport or for weekend relaxation.

It is a lifestyle choice, I want to do it in comfort, I dont want to fight 18 metre masts and 150m2 of sails

I want to do my miles in calmer weather, parked by lunchtime generating lots of power on the way to keep the beers icy cold and then sit in my comfortable outdoor seating under the covered patio or perhaps lounge in the pool up on the front deck

[beau]

I have to agree with you Dave, its a lifestyle choice and not everyone can do it.
It is about the money.
I am not prepared to work that hard at 61 years old or go through the stresses of the past to buy that BMW or whatever just to show off.
Luckily for me I learnt that lesson a long time ago.

However you don't need a lot of money to cruise, you just have to set your standards around the money you have available.

This forum is great the way it handles Newbee's, that is, get experience before? spending lots of money.
Not everyone can live this life as we all know.
A friend of mine Alan Phillips has spent most of his life cruising around the world. He wrote a book "Around the world cruising guide" a bit like Jimmy Cornell with attitude.
That book showed me what cruising is really about .
Also it is about finding a suitable partner. I really feel sorry about those sole sailors trying to live their dream.


I went on the internet etc and said that my idea of a perfect life was to sit on the aft deck of a boat at sunset, drinking a glass of wine with the waft of steak cooking on the barbecue.
I met Christine ( my age not a "young one") who enjoys the life as much as I do.
We have now been living aboard for 2 years and we both love it, but we do hope to start cruising north/ indonesia/ malaysia very soon.

"There is no rough weather if you don't have a schedule."

[osirissail]

Over the recent years many "rag-sailor" have matured and switched to power yachts. The desire to continue cruising butted up against the physical demands of "rag-sailing" equaled getting a power yacht. Some were even buying catamarans for the stability and speed - so many in fact, that some cat manufacturers just started leaving the masts off and sold the boats as power cats.

[MarkJ]

Saw a powered cat yesterday with a mast on it but no boom. Furled Genoa. In mast furled mainsail! Main is loose footed and comes back to a traveler on aft targa bar.


Didnt take a photo

[osirissail]

I have seen recently cruising trawlers with taller masts and a short boom on top. They are using small sails to assist in conserving fuel on off the wind journey.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Yawn

Perhaps you missed this bit, even though you quoted it


You do not have a performance boat
You do not have performance sails
You do not have a performance rig

people may have sailed around the world in an old bathtub with a broom for a mast and used nappies for sails, but clearly, this is not what I am making comparisons against.

I made that clear at the start of this thread


Indeed you are correct


Correct again, it is a no brainer

Take into account that they already had an engine (so no additional expense)
and then deduct the cost of the rig etc and convert that into fuel?

How does it look now?

The definition of "performance ' can only be assessed after you define what it is you are trying to accomplish. In a pleasure boat, that is the ratio of pleasure ( free cruising time) to displeasure ( time spend on the treadmill) to get to the pleasure part. In that regard my boat has much higher performance, and is thus far more efficient than far faster , larger and more expensive craft , given she has enabled me to cruise 11 months a year since my mid 20's. Don't get much more efficient than that.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

The definition of "performance ' can only be assessed after you define what it is you are trying to accomplish.

And I did, right here

Originally Posted by cat man do

I'm a boatbuilder by trade and did the numbers on building a 50 ft sailing cat with 40 ft accomidation 40 hp diesels and big rotating mast, andersen winches,nice square top main,screechers etc that we,d need to maintain good sailing speeds in light air and figured we could ditch the rig and other bits, modify the underwater shapes in last 12 ft, up the diesels to 65 hp/ side, continue the cabin roof till past the back beam [plenty of shade in tropics] and have about $60,000 Aud to buy diesel. We also figured on replacing sails every six years and rigging wire every five years, so near enough to another $ 20,000... or $4000/year. Reckon we'll cruise around 10kn and 14kn on the perfect day and shouldnt suck down to much diesel.

Also we get to go out to the reef in calm weather instead of 20 knots.The ones we want to go back to and stay awhile are about 300nm offshore, carry the big dinghy [11ft with 10hp o/b] and be able to have a few extra solar panel on roof to run that big fridge and freezer I've always lusted for.[ got to have ice in the rum and coke.]

add: The dinghy is now a 13ft x 6ft catamaran dinghy with a larger outboard based off of one of these

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/used-boa...ISHER/make.htm

I will do mine from Polycore epoxy comp.

In a pleasure boat, that is the ratio of pleasure ( free cruising time) to displeasure ( time spend on the treadmill) to get to the pleasure part.

There is also a comfort level required Brent, while your vessel may be suitable for you in your 20's will it still suit your needs when you get past your 40's?
I suspect the pleasure ratio may well have dropped off considerably by then.

As we got older, we have been able to build an asset base to support this vessel, when finished, therefore our pleasure level will have increased without spending time on the treadmill while out there.

In that regard my boat has much higher performance, and is thus far more efficient than far faster , larger and more expensive craft , given she has enabled me to cruise 11 months a year since my mid 20's. Don't get much more efficient than that.

At this stage of your life it would seem that you are correct and at a similar stage of my life, with the vessel I had at the time I could have happily done the same.

Add 1 woman and crystal balling into the future and I soon came to the conclusion that I would need a bigger and more comfortable vessel if I was to do it, with a happy partner, for the rest of my able days.

Several boats later I believe I almost have the right vessel happening - though I do believe there will be another one after this if I am still playing boats when I am 60 - with less steps and living on a single level.