Does She Roll , Does She Wallow ?

[shipleft]

I have three of those old navy whalers(don't ask me why) and I think now is the time to get them back into the water. I have finally collected enough material to power and refit them. The first question I have is, are they very rolly-polly and/or wet? I know they were designed to carry a lot of people in relatively protected waters usually, but how are they outside of a harbour or anchorage? I have one I would like to leave as an open boat, for the second I have a six window fibreglass dog-house that fits over most of the forward passenger compartment that I will build on a front part to seal it up completely, then maybe an open back wheelhouse over the engine comp for west coasting, the third I am kicking around the idea of putting a single cylinder putter in and rigging as a gaff yawl maybe with a drop keel? years ago I had an old Montague from the Sea scouts with the drop-keel, it was pretty much a basket case, they had let the worms get into her, so I had to abandon the project but I always wanted to get another, now I have these glass ones! By the way does anyone Know exactly what they are made of? I've heard kevlar mentioed but the resin looks like epoxy, not polyester.Help!

[cat man do]

My mind saw something different there

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by cat man do

My mind saw something different there

+1

[FSMike]

I had a 26' double ended version made by Uniflite. The construction was a fire retardant polyester resin. Mfg'd in the 50's?
Mine was redone into a cutter rigged sloop with a gaff main. Wooden spars, running backs, varnish, bronze, full keel with a cutaway forefoot, widow maker of a bowsprit, etc. Not a winch on her. (I was younger then.)
Pretty and a lot of fun.

[shipleft]

Thanks for that Mike. I was really wondering about that resin, because all the multiple years of coatings applied by those boys in blue, be it gray paint and/or gray gelcoat , are now peeling off all three boats, mostly the interior but I see water blisters under the hull finish too. Not osmosis as it is traditionally known, but just loose finish coats. I'm in for a lot of sanding I guess! What sort of keel was added to the original hull? For the sail version, I was thinking bilge keels made of glassed foam with some lead along the bottom edges, they would also act as rolling chocks.I also have an 18ft length of medium weight railroad steel that I could bolt and glass to the original keel, it wouldn't add more than 6" in depth but it would sure make the keel bullet proof! The long bowsprit kind of scares me, but I have seen retractable ones rigged. How did the boat handle?S

[FSMike]

It was one of the prior owners who had the boat modified. I was told that he hired a naval architect to design the placement of the rig, keel, etc. The keel was wood planks attached to the hull and glassed over. The ballast was internal, mostly lead covered with cement. She was too tender to suit me when I purchased her, so I bought a 10' piece of steel approx 3" x 6" for additional weight. I had that cut in half, welded on some tabs and sandwiched the bottom of the keel with the pieces. Throughbolted the steel using the tabs and also the main part of the steel itself. Stiffened up the boat very nicely.
I streamlined the external ballast a bit and she ended up sailing very well.
The boat drew 4' 2". Had a stern hung rudder, a real barn door, flat with no foil shape. Worked ok but needed some muscle when the wind picked up.
Interestingly, the fastest I ever had the girl was on a dead run. This was in the Florida keys, very light chop and a pretty strong Norther, staysail and second (deep) reef in the main. The abrupt turn of the bilges results in a very flat bottom for a large portion of the hull. I swear that boat was planing and throwing a small roostertail from the rudder!
Fun times.
I found the hull to be very strong.
Saw a 30' version converted to sail once, had a lot more room, looked good, but the owner said it didn't sail very well. The 30' models are much beamier with more wetted surface, and I don't think his had much of a keel.
Good luck and post some pix of yours when you're done.

P.S. I remember reading somewhere about blister complaints with these boats, but I never saw a one. Perhaps isolated cases.

[delmarrey]

The neighbor had one. Spent 5 years to do a lousy job of building a cabin and then died.

They're a very heavy solid hull but not much good for anything except fishing, INHO.

.

[shipleft]

Well that is reassuring, it can actually sail! Going by that 4'2' draft that would mean that about 20" had been added onto the original keel. I could add about 14" using glassed foam then glass my railroad iron to that, that ought to stiffen things up. These hulls are as you say fairly flat, but they are very similar(except for that scallop for the prop)to many of the newer "racy" fin keel designs and their width-to-length ratio is actually quite good. What did your boat have for power and prop? I have one of those Japanese air-cooled one lungers(I'd guess it to have 8-10hp) and a 14" two blade prop.S

[FSMike]

I had a 10hp Evinrude sitting in a well. Originally the well was offset to the side of the keel. I did a major refit which included redesigning the cockpit, and I got the brilliant idea of relocating the well to the center, notching out the keel to make room for the shaft/prop.
After a lot of work I was just about finished when a lady visiting the yard stopped by and told me that she had done the same thing once and it didn't work due to restriction of water flow by the prop. I was damned if I was going to undo everything I had just done so I finished up and splashed the boat.
Unfortunately it turned out just as she had predicted. Motoring ability was severely impaired. Motor became unreliable so I pretty much sailed all the time anyway. If I had wanted to carve out a relatively huge hole in the keel that might have at least partially solved the problem but I ended up selling the boat.

[shipleft]

Ouch! That must have been a disappointment, at one time I did consider wacking a hole out just behind the keel and putting in a centered outboard well. I have a 50hp Merc long shaft that I could use, but I really don't like the old two-stroke motors, they stink so bad and are not as reliable as an inboard, and I have a bunch of small diesels to play with. The biggest hurdle I have is that the BW Velvet Drive transmissions I have don't have the dropped output shaft that the original 3:1 Paragons had and these boats have low shaft lines. The motors have to sit practically in the bilge! I have three small 4-cylinder Nissans, two of which have the 2.94:1 Velvet Drive already on them, for the two power-only versions. The Japanese single-cylinder I have for the sail version,has a huge flywheel and will have to sit almost in the middle of the boat on an extended shaft to clear the hull, but it doesn't have reverse! I had a pair of 18ft oars that came with the old Montague whaler, I think I still have them somewhere in the rafters of one of my boatsheds and will probably rig oarlocks in the front of the cockpit so I can stand and push row if necessary to dock.That should impress the ladies!S

[FSMike]

If you've got 18' oars you should consider rigging a yuloh (sp?). I seem to recall the Pardeys using one.

[shipleft]

What sort of rig is that? Never heard of it, what country or area is it from?S

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by shipleft

What sort of rig is that? Never heard of it, what country or area is it from?S

Single Oar propulsion - Yuloh, Ro, Scull...
Ain't google a wonderful thing?

[FSMike]

+1
Lots of yuloh info on google.

[shipleft]

Duh! Here I am googling all over to get information on the whalers and it did not occur to me at all to go there for yuloh! Brain dead!Thanks to both of you!