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Old 15-04-2014, 08:44   #31
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Re: Desperately seeking...

GG,
call your marine insurance co. I'm sure they'll recommend a Surveyor that will pick the boat apart.
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Old 15-04-2014, 08:44   #32
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Re: Desperately seeking...

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post

Do people really run those things on plane when going long distances?

Nope, not much. Occasional brief higher-speed runs to blow out the engines, as when toward the end of a full day at slightly below hull speed.

Or when the occasional storm threatens and speed might actually help.

Or maybe when just trying to make a specific landfall because it would be more convenient for whatever the overall cruise plan calls for.

And sometimes slightly higher speeds can be more comfortable in a given sea state... although that doesn't usually mean planing is required.

Otherwise, I'd guess her most economic cruising will probably be in the neighborhood of 7.5-8.0 kts, assuming approx. 58" waterline. Not sure what 12v71 DDs burn at those kind of RPMs, but ours would be down around 2-3 GPH per engine depending on wind, tides, and currents. Maybe hers might be twice that, given twice as many cylinders as ours

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Old 15-04-2014, 09:17   #33
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Re: Desperately seeking...

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Nope, not much. Occasional brief higher-speed runs to blow out the engines, as when toward the end of a full day at slightly below hull speed.

Or when the occasional storm threatens and speed might actually help.

Or maybe when just trying to make a specific landfall because it would be more convenient for whatever the overall cruise plan calls for.

And sometimes slightly higher speeds can be more comfortable in a given sea state... although that doesn't usually mean planing is required.

Otherwise, I'd guess her most economic cruising will probably be in the neighborhood of 7.5-8.0 kts, assuming approx. 58" waterline. Not sure what 12v71 DDs burn at those kind of RPMs, but ours would be down around 2-3 GPH per engine depending on wind, tides, and currents. Maybe hers might be twice that, given twice as many cylinders as ours

-Chris
Having run Sportfishers myself, I sort of knew the answer. I've actually made a graph of fuel consumption vs speed on two different Sportfishing boats, and you know what? The most efficient speed is idle, any speed above idle and the fuel mileage comes down, of course you'd go mad going places at idle. But the only worst fuel mileage than planing, is that speed just before the bow drops her onto plane.
Best way to get somewhere is to troll, that way you at least can say your fishing and not saving fuel
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Old 15-04-2014, 09:58   #34
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Re: Desperately seeking...

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I'm going to run at 10k not 18. That should be MUCH more economical, but a MY is still a MY. Can't put lipstick on a pig
There are a number of fuel flow meters that you might want to consider to find the most economical speed considering ocean current and wind speed for any given day. The instrument would probably pay for itself with one tank full under optimum settings. If you do decide to run at say 1000 RPM, your nautical miles per gallon would probably be about 1.5; however, to prevent carbon buildup, for every six hours of running, you will need to run at 2000 RPM for half an hour of that time. If carbon buildup is not taken into consideration, you would eventually need new cylinders and pistons. For a displacement hull, an economical speed, as a rough rule of thumb, is the square root of the waterline. If you assume a planing hull is most economical at the same speed (this could be a bad assumption) then 7.5 knots is probably a good estimate. Note that the Detroit Diesels do have a diesel return flow to the tank so you would need a meter that takes this into consideration. Here is an example of a flow meter for two engines, but this is the first example I could find so there might be better ones out there.

FloScan Instrument Co. Inc.
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Old 15-04-2014, 10:28   #35
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Re: Desperately seeking...

You might want to make sure they have the experience of surveying older boats. Many new younger surveyor do not have that knowledge experience, so I would want an old salt. Also try to be there with the surveyor so you can ask question. Some items on the list might be a concern related to age, and non structural that do not need to be immediately address. Be sure to look beyond the glitter/shine or lack of and focus on the condition of the hull, superstructure, engine running gear as those are the expensive items and he can give you a ball park estimate.

Also you can break a survey down in to parts. 1) A quick, less than one hour, walk though rapping/taping and general observation to see if he boat is worth the expense and time. 2) engine running gear survey, 3) a detailed survey, couple of hours listing the stuff and 4) out of water survey. So its might be best to have a local surveyor.

As mentioned before make sure they are SAMS and survey done by ABYC standards.
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Old 15-04-2014, 10:54   #36
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Re: Desperately seeking...

No way should a survey be done without you being there, your survey most likely won't make sense when you see it in writing if your not. Bring a good camera and a notebook.
My survey on a MUCH smaller boat took all day and is 65 pages long to give you an example.
Do not close on the boat until you have a written survey
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Old 15-04-2014, 11:02   #37
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Re: Desperately seeking...

I'd leave the surveyor alone. Let him do his job without distraction.
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Old 15-04-2014, 11:32   #38
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Re: Desperately seeking...

There was a retired CG guy that surveyed my boat when I was selling it in Ft Myers about 5 years ago. He was decent, but they all mostly suck. He was supposedly a mechanical exprt so spent lots of time listening to maybe bad water pump bearings and missed tons if stuff he should have been looking for. The main thing is a REALLY good survey on a boat that size will take 2-3 days.

If that Campell guy is the retired "hunter consultant" I would give him a pass also. Surveyed a boat for a customer of mine 2 years ago. Was a good composite boat and he didn't have the faintest idea how it had been built.
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Old 15-04-2014, 11:54   #39
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Re: Desperately seeking...

A well organized surveyor will have a check list for different types of boats. Its hard to miss stuff that's on an on-going list.
The guy I had here in Seattle was excellent and pointed out stuff that I had overlooked even after working on it for 10 years.
And do stay out of they're way and only talk if you have a question or he speaks. A good surveyor will talk you through the boat and literally point out what he's putting on the report so it can be dealt with later.
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Old 15-04-2014, 12:03   #40
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Re: Desperately seeking...

A detail survey of old electronics and misc items is a waste of time and money as there is not that much real value in them. I would just turn them on to see if the work, the brand name and model. I did not have my surveyor waste time as we where planning on replacing, and remodeling, so they had 0 value to us. A good diesel heating will run 20+ grand, the engine could run another 20 grand exchangers/starters/alternators/hose/belts/filter etc. depending on the condition. You could easily drop 50 grand into the boat, so DO NOT make yourself cash poor.

Being there to ask questions and discuss is as important as the surveyor. I would have an OLD SALT.
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Old 15-04-2014, 12:06   #41
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Re: Desperately seeking...

Having been on both sides of the table, in buying and selling, and in the process of purchasing myself, I would like to offer just one piece of advice.

You are about to embark on a large expenditure. However, that capital expense will pale into insignificance compared to the ongoing costs of running the particular vessel you are considering.

If you have ANY, and I repeat the word ANY doubts regarding the vessel after a survey, you have two choices.
  1. Reduce the offer price.
  2. Walk away.
If you miss purchasing this vessel, another one always comes along. I was concerned when you stated to the effect that this was the first vessel that someone accepted your offer. Reading through this thread carefully, I get the impression that perhaps you might not have done your homework on costings etc as carefully as someone else might have done.


It is not a criticism, its an observation.


Good luck and as always, absolutely best wishes for your boating future from me and all that sail.
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Old 15-04-2014, 12:29   #42
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Re: Desperately seeking...

Check to see if a surveyor will come down from the Tarpon Springs area. It might save you a few dollars. Some of the surveyors mentioned are 4-5 hours away.

As for the fuel, just be prepared. I bought a 45' Aft Cabin last month and brought it over to the west coast of Florida from the New Orleans area. It was 475nm and I spent just shy of $3000 in diesel burning 17 gallons per hour.

Don't forget to factor in the slip fees for the return trip. Transient slips were $1.50-1.75 per foot.
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Old 15-04-2014, 15:06   #43
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Re: Desperately seeking...

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Ed Rowe, Ed Rowe Associates.
mobile 954 328-5780
Work 772-589-7463
eroweassoc@comcast.net

Been using him for 40 years. Best surveyor I've ever worked with. Haven't spoken with him for a couple of years but assume he's still in the business. Does power and sail. In addition to being a great surveyor he knows his boats.
Thanks or the recommendation. I hired Ed.
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Old 15-04-2014, 16:03   #44
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Re: Desperately seeking...

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Thanks or the recommendation. I hired Ed.

Wow, that name brings back memories. He surveyed the CSY 33 I took through the Caribbean 1991-93.
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Old 15-04-2014, 23:02   #45
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Re: Desperately seeking...



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galaxy Girl... good luck with keeping your mom in line

Great to meet you both..... and it wont matter which room you allocate to mom on the new boat.... she will choose her own........
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