Completely Overwhelmed

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by chris_gee

The reality is that I need to purchase a boat as a liveaboard at a marina for a while and I have 5 kids. I do have a small condo that we will also use, but neither full time.
I find this a bit odd. The poster mentions 13 years in real estate investment. In NE prices have been falling for 7 years.
She may have made a lot or depending on market timing and leverage lost a lot - no information there.
However she says she is looking at a 65' Hatteras. They list used at just under 500,000 to 1 million.
I imagine that motoring from NE to the Caribbean would take quite a while - at a rough guess 25 days. Probably more because it would be coastal hopping. Schooling and having 5 young children would influence that.
Many posters seeking liveaboards seem to be being seeking a cheap option having run into housing difficulties. Not all obviously but there is a cluster.
In this case it seems a bit more upmarket, but many of the same factors apply. That it sounds fun does not mean that it is very practical.

Maybe she has cash because if she does not, she just might face reality in finding available financing opportunities. I still maintain the entire idea is ill thought out. I personally will only be convinced otherwise if she returns next year to share her experiences.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by rgscpat

Since you say that you're not in a hurry, you might save money, frustration, and your sanity in the long run by buying a "learner boat" that's much smaller, older, and less expensive than what you're thinking of now, and making experiments, mistakes, and train yourself and your crew on this boat. If you keep the boat maintained and sell it in a better market in a few years, you wouldn't lose a whole lot of money ....

The not losing a lot of money on an old boat sounds wildly optimistic to me. The saving sanity by buying an older boat seems completely far-fetched to me -- especially since I don't have the impression that the OP would enjoy doing her own repairs or even trying to evaluate which mechanics are competent and honest. I think she would be better off with the newest boat she can afford.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Since when is cruising ever practical?

Or recreational boating in any form whatsoever..
And for me anyway it's a way of living, not a business

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by foggysail

I have to poop on your parade. Nobody knows WHY you MUST have a boat to live on at the same time as a condo and with 5 kids. UNREALISTIC unless you just won a lottery.

Last time I checked this was the good ole US of A. If I choose to have a condo and a liveaboard boat, than that's my choice. I think that your financial perspective of others is distorted. Everyone doesn't have the same lack of funds as you. Did you read my first post, when I said that I have been a real estate investor for a very long time.

You say somebody is helping in the search for a 65' something. You say your from New England. You say you intend to share the condo along with a boat for residence.

Yes...and? have you ever heard of a broker? Well, they happen to be very helful in finding boats. In fact, I viewed a 65' Hat on Thursday. Yes, it was the same day we woke up to 3 inches of snow. Good thing my truck has 4 wheel. Thanks to my BROKER I had the opportunity to view a very nice boat.

But I want to start by considering a 65' anything for living quarters for 6 people ....unless your plan is to have kids live in the condo, you in the boat, space is tight. Assume for example the 65' something has a beam of 15' and remember, boats do not have rectangular shapes unless it is a house boat. But for this analysis, 15X65 is only 975 square feet of living space and in reality because of a boat's shape, it will be less, probably much less. That is an average of about 160 square feet of living space/person. Not much larger than an average office.

It's quite apparant to me that you are a glass half empty person. I thought the Hat was quite spacious. I was impressed by the staterooms. I figured that there would be plenty of room for us all. My kids would love it, especially the adventure.

Now the thing needs docking someplace. Around here a boat that size will see prices starting around $10,000 for a summer season, more for year round. AND FINDING PLACES HERE IN NEW ENGLAND for a boat that size will be difficult. And do not forget the water use fees along with the local excise tax plus insurance. And of course you have no boating experience so I doubt many insurers will rush to sell a policy to you.

For your information (since your such an expert), I have already found a marina that has plenty of space for large boats and visited with them. They are located in Downtown Boston, at $275' during peak season, which totals close to 20 grand peak, but just because you think that's costly, doesn't mean it is to someone else. I can certainly afford a couple grand a month docking fees to a premium marina in the best location. Don't assume everyone has the same financial situation or perspective as you.

And New England gets cold, very cold as you must know. Great to live on a boat with an insulation factor of about 1 and try to heat it. I do not share most other comments about looking at boat shows, I believe the entire endeavor is not well thought out, from what is already discussed, unrealistic.

Again, may not be a good choice for you, but good thing for me, I am much more adventurous than you, and probably much heartier too. I have lived in NE my entire life and am well aware of our weather. There are all kinds of folks living aboard at Constitution marina in Charlestown and I have spoken with a few folks that live at the marina that I chose, and most of them are in MUCH smaller boats than what I will probably purchase. Some boats do come with heating systems, ya know.

Foggy

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. Not sure why my plans sound so unrealistic to you, but the fact is, to each his own. May sound tricky to you, but I've accomplished much bigger goals in my life than this. Living on a boat with my kids will be a walk in the park compared to some things I've conquered. I'm sure of that....and....fun to boot. Otherwise, I obviously wouldn't be choosing to do it.

Dude, life is too short. You shouldn't close your mind up so.

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by carstenb

As someone noted further up. This is looking like a Disney movie. Mom and group of kids move on board boat, have fantastic adventures etc etc etc. Hubby (loaded with cash) shows up once in a while. Happy days and happy ending.

Let's face this. It is an extremely improbable scenario. The OP has -0- water experience and wants to buy a 65+ footer. Someone tell me just how she expects to sail, let alone dock this damn thing?

What happens to her and her kids the first time the weather blows? Right now she is incapable of realizing if she can sail in force 3 or force 8 winds. hell she doesn't even know what that means.

Not to mention maintenance.

This lady is gonna need really deep pockets. 65+ foot boats do not come cheap. Hiring a crew is also not cheap and maintaining the boat is not cheap.

Ok maybe she has the bucks, but so far her modus operandi is typical of those who know no better. "I have a some money and want to sail around the world. What boat should I buy?"

The fact that she's asking about motorboats and not sail boats only makes it a little easier. Living aboard in New England can be done, but is tough. At the very least, she's gonna have to install a mega sized heater and probably will have to reinsulate.

If she thinks her teenagers are gonna be happy in the crews quarters - she's never seen typical crews quarters. a bunk, a chair and and a writing shelf. End story.

"They" say the boating community is an open-minded bunch, but I often don't find that.

I will hire a captain for trips until I learn how to operate.

Some people do live Disney movies. I'm sorry, though, for those who don't.

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Have you not yet actually viewed any boats? That will be key; considering a list of features can be useful to give you a starting point, but the way everything is integrated into an actual boat is what will help you decide. View boats. (Yes, some brokers push what they have; it's their job. Your real estate background will have prepared you to deal with that.)






I think it's only something like 46 NM from somewhere around Ft. Lauderdale to the nearest landing in the Bahamas. Once you're looking at boats in the size range necessary for a family of 7, it'll have enough tankage. Don't sweat it.




Something like this is still an idea you should consider, even if only to eventually continue to reject it. At that point, you'll know more about WHY you think what you think. Same for sailing cats (and some DO have a sort-of flybridge). And power cats. View some.





A useful start. As you actually view more boats, you'll be able to refine this, probably with more nautical (good sight lines?) or living (convenient galley?) criteria.





Absolutely. Almost anything currently on almost any boat can be replaced, including engines and fuel tanks (at some obvious expense). If you were to buy a 5 year old boat, all the electronics are likely "obsolete" (in the marketplace sense) anyway, although that doesn't mean they won't work well enough for your purposes. In any case, it's quite common to completely replace a whole electronics suite.




Have you started kids and mom on boating safety course, piloting or nav course, CPR course, etc.? Useful to do as prep. USCG Auxiliary or local US Power Squadron...

BTW, I see some have again said a large boat is unrealistic for a newbie. I still believe most folks can be taught to handle a boat, and in fact believe docking a 65-footer can be easier in some cases than it is to park a 27' cuddy cabin with a single IO. (Especially since boats that size are often docked side-to a pier.) Not on Day 1, of course; something to work up to, with help. Assuming some aptitude. Assuming training. Assuming practice. Assuming at least a sufficient trained crew (2 can be enough, 1 can work, depending... and family members can apply). Assuming time to assimilate and integrate all that. And in most cases, you'll be docking at marinas with dock hands swarming all over the place.

-Chris

Thanks Chris!!! Your info is both practical and very helpful. I also appreciate the vote of confidence. I too believe anything can be learned.

[shorebird]

Well done Galaxie Girl, good rebuttal for the naysayers, although most seem to play the devil's advocate, pointing out the possible negative aspects of life aboard a boat, and the possible financial surprises in doing so. You did, after all, ask for opinions, both good and bad, but it sounds like you may be just the person to forge ahead and make your plans a reality. don't give up on this board, though, and keep updating your progress.
Cheers,
David

[Greggegner]

Fuel, fast trawlers can use a lot of it, my friend's 38 main ship can burn over 40 gal/hr at 20 knots. A boat big enough for 5-7 to live on will be a real expensive vessel to maintain and dock. From a cost point of view I suggest a land based permanent home and a 35' trawler would be a good start. The length of trawler will give you some range and allow your family to learn.

[GalaxyGirl]

Originally Posted by chris_gee

The reality is that I need to purchase a boat as a liveaboard at a marina for a while and I have 5 kids. I do have a small condo that we will also use, but neither full time.
I find this a bit odd. The poster mentions 13 years in real estate investment. In NE prices have been falling for 7 years.
She may have made a lot or depending on market timing and leverage lost a lot - no information there.
However she says she is looking at a 65' Hatteras. They list used at just under 500,000 to 1 million.
I imagine that motoring from NE to the Caribbean would take quite a while - at a rough guess 25 days. Probably more because it would be coastal hopping. Schooling and having 5 young children would influence that.
Many posters seeking liveaboards seem to be being seeking a cheap option having run into housing difficulties. Not all obviously but there is a cluster.
In this case it seems a bit more upmarket, but many of the same factors apply. That it sounds fun does not mean that it is very practical.

Some of these comments would make me think that I wasn't even posting on a boating forum. I really didn't think that I would have to explain to boaters why I want a boat.

And....not everyone lost in the market collapse. In fact, savy investors, such as myself, actually flourished during that time. The crash was the best thing that ever happened to my real estate career, but that's another story. And....don't make ASSumptions. I don't invest in NE. Yes, I live here, but I invest elsewhere.

Some of you are very niave and presumptuous.

[Greggegner]

Originally Posted by Greggegner

Fuel, fast trawlers can use a lot of it, my friend's 38 main ship can burn over 40 gal/hr at 20 knots. A boat big enough for 5-7 to live on will be a real expensive vessel to maintain and dock. From a cost point of view I suggest a land based permanent home and a 35' trawler would be a good start. The length of trawler will give you some range and allow your family to learn.

Just read your response, my point isn't a big boat is to expensive it is not good to start boating with a 60'. Lots of reasons from limited dockage, limited service facilities, and general well being of the family by operating something you don't understand. Learn the craft, then get a big one...

[mcarling]

Go GalaxyGirl! Don't let the naysayers here get to you. You're quite right that you shouldn't have to explain here why you want a boat. Unfortunately, some here seem to think that everyone else should live as they do, which of course is a problem not unique to this forum.

Don't listen to the advice to get a tiny boat. You know how much space you and your children need. They don't. Live your dream and don't worry about the people who are in a funk because they can't afford to live your dream (and perhaps not their own).

I suggest that you consider studying the RYA Day Skipper Theory course. You can do it online. After you have some sailing experience with the professional captain, you might want to take the RYA Day Skipper Practical course. It's about five days and there are a few sailing schools in the NE area which offer it.

[GalaxyGirl]

I completely understand playing the devil, but there is a very big difference between offering helful advice, and following a witch-hunt.

I often find on these boating forums, that if you get busy and don't have time to check the board for a couple of days others will tear you apart while your gone.

Don't be so closed minded. Not everyone will follow what you believe is the "right" way to live life. The world would be a very boring place if we all thought alike and did things the exact same way.

Some folks may need to start small and work their way up, and others, like me, will jump right in, and figure it out. We are all different. There really is no right or wrong way. May not be your way, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Some of you remind me so much of when I was back in my early twenties and my friends would laugh at me and say "You can't just buy a house", well that's ok, because they are ALL eatting crow now. The best revenge, next to living well, is doing what others say that you cannot do.

[deckofficer]

GalaxyGirl,

My post at the beginning of your thread was supportive because as you said, you as well as the rest of us are capable of learning anything we set out to do. Also, I've never met a cruising kid I didn't like. They are open to adventure and don't whine.

I changed careers in my 40's, went back to school (California Maritme Academy), and dealt with family and friends thinking there was no way I could pull it off against all the top HS grads at my age. Graduated 3rd in my class and have enjoyed my new career sailing all over the world. You seem to be well heeled, like boating, and want to offer some special experiences for your kids. You came here for advice from folks that are doing it and get clobbered with negatives. Don't let it bother you, the fact that your looking at 65' Hatteras's shows you know a good value for a solid boat. Not everyone can pony up for a Nordhavn, and if I remember right I suggested maybe looking at catamaran trawlers which will give you good nm per gallon and have less motion on the hook.

Just pick and choose the advice offered up here, I expect you will find the boat that fits your needs and you and the kids will have the time of your life.

[RabidRabbit]

I dont think there are any nay-sayers here just a bunch of actual boaters who are offering very real advice. If you had a clue you wouldnt be here trying to figure ths stuff out. You cant have it all in a boat unless you have millions. You want a huge boat but dont understand the fuel burn issues. Most here are sailors because they love to sail, and or couldnt cross oceans because fuel burn would prohibit it. If I had millions I would travel in a quad engine 100' scarb going 85 mph everywhere, I love speed, thats my style. But the reality is a 32' sailboat. What you want and what works are two different things. Boats are not houses, boats are cramped and small.

[boatman61]

My boats small and cramped ... a Haterrass 65 is definitely NOT...