Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-01-2014, 16:17   #931
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw58ph View Post
Once you shed most of the dirt stuff, you probable will not want to move back to the dirt, and if you do will not need/want the space and dirt stuff again. You get use to living in the smaller square foot space. If we move back on to the dirt we will rent a small one or two bedroom.

Also you will probable want to stay mobile with no fix ties to an area, so you can move around easily and cheaply if you want to. We have change moorage 5 times over 18 year, and we are thinking about moving back on to Lake Union again as Everett is so darn boring, and the water is fresh. We are going to buy a motor home as land cruise use during the winter, as we are alread ue to living in a smal space and sort of camping it.

The first winter is usually the make of break for most live a boards. However, most that do not make it either the boat or they where not prepared. If you make it though the first winter, the likely hood you will be a live a board for 3 to 5 years. Not may are as crazy as we are to be a live aboard for 16+ years. But once you are labeled as crazy and embrace being crazy, its good from there.
That's the most exciting part of this journey for me. I can no longer count how many homes I have lived in during my lifetime, but it's somewhere around 20ish and I am not yet 40. It will be so nice to be able to move my home when I get restless or have a crappy neighbor

Phil,
I've been meaning to ask you, how do you keep your "pipes" from freezing in the winter? Or should I say, do your pipes ever freeze in the winter?
__________________

__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2014, 16:52   #932
Registered User
 
rw58ph's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Roughwater, pilot house, 58 ft
Posts: 485
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

The Webasto is in the engine room. The raw water temp is around 50 degrees so the bilge is protected. Its above the water line that tend to freeze. Best to leave the boat in the water if the raw water is above freezing.

The marine domestic water pipes will freeze so the marine turns off the water, so we have to use the boats water tanks.
__________________

__________________
rw58ph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2014, 17:28   #933
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw58ph View Post
The Webasto is in the engine room. The raw water temp is around 50 degrees so the bilge is protected. Its above the water line that tend to freeze. Best to leave the boat in the water if the raw water is above freezing.

The marine domestic water pipes will freeze so the marine turns off the water, so we have to use the boats water tanks.
Ok, so the heads don't freeze because they are below the waterline?

How about your galley sink, does that freeze? You have galley up, right?
__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2014, 18:13   #934
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG Its best to keep some heat in the whole boat if possible. When plugged into shore power the motor and motor room would benefit from block heaters if none present a set of inexpensive glue on the oil pan units can be put on a plug in timer. An ideal set up for a boat that spends time at dock and on the hook is two separate heating SX. Electric which is clean and quite and diesel when off the dock. Aside from the comfort of the heat the avoidance of mold growth goes a long way to keep a boat livable. If you are going to have several occupants and also cook aboard there will be plenty of moisture generated on top of the already damp sea air therefor the need for heat. As a CG VSC inspector I get to board a lot of boats and I can often tell or smell if a boat is kept dry or not. If you pull the boat out in cold climate you have to do a lot of winterizing and if possible heat is still a good idea if it can be done without fire hazard.
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2014, 18:47   #935
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
GG Its best to keep some heat in the whole boat if possible. When plugged into shore power the motor and motor room would benefit from block heaters if none present a set of inexpensive glue on the oil pan units can be put on a plug in timer. An ideal set up for a boat that spends time at dock and on the hook is two separate heating SX. Electric which is clean and quite and diesel when off the dock. Aside from the comfort of the heat the avoidance of mold growth goes a long way to keep a boat livable. If you are going to have several occupants and also cook aboard there will be plenty of moisture generated on top of the already damp sea air therefor the need for heat. As a CG VSC inspector I get to board a lot of boats and I can often tell or smell if a boat is kept dry or not. If you pull the boat out in cold climate you have to do a lot of winterizing and if possible heat is still a good idea if it can be done without fire hazard.
I agree that a heating system is a must for winter liveaboards and that is my plan to have one installed, but I wasn't sure if the heat alone would keep the pipes from freezing. Sometimes house pipes freeze, despite being heated. Is this the same on boats?
__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2014, 20:03   #936
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG there is always the possibility of cold spots due to the weather exposure or insulation differences. Each boat will be different in this respect. If you find one or more cold spots you may have to take that into account by ducting warmer air from other areas or using fans. This is hard to predict about any given boat it is something you have to observe while living aboard. Some times simple insulation to pipes in a cold spot or added insulation to walls etc. are needed. If you know to look for the problem it will most likely not be a problem that will cause grief.
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 09:56   #937
Registered User
 
rw58ph's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Roughwater, pilot house, 58 ft
Posts: 485
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
Ok, so the heads don't freeze because they are below the waterline?

How about your galley sink, does that freeze? You have galley up, right?

Yes our galley is up but the living area of the boat is heated, 65 to 70 degrees, and so is the engine rooms. All the cabinet door have louveres so they are indirectly heated also. We installed a heat exchange at the galley floor, and in each of the bather rooms which blow directly at the sinks.

In 16 years the only area we had freeze was the stern deck sink as we do not heat that area. So if you have bow or stern wash downs, sinks above the water line and not close to a heated area they could freeze. So the best/easiest is heat tape same as used on land.

Its best to fill the boats water tanks and use the tanks all the time, but especially in the winter as you can hear the domestic water pump come on to pressure up, so if there is a leak you will hear the pump. I have seen to many boats sink, come close to sinking and/or water damage being hooked up the domestic water, so we use the tanks 100%.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	back deck.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	98.5 KB
ID:	74547  
__________________
rw58ph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 16:21   #938
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
I agree that a heating system is a must for winter liveaboards and that is my plan to have one installed, but I wasn't sure if the heat alone would keep the pipes from freezing. Sometimes house pipes freeze, despite being heated. Is this the same on boats?

I just saw in another forum that some users who have newer reverse-cycle units like Dometic's Vector Turbo AC/heat systems... are successfully heating their boats with air temps way low, like in the 'teens. Don't have any insight into counterpart water temps, nor whether this is completely credible, but one bubba cited a manufacturer's manual reference that suggested heat should happen even at temps like 10.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 16:30   #939
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,068
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
I just saw in another forum that some users who have newer reverse-cycle units like Dometic's Vector Turbo AC/heat systems... are successfully heating their boats with air temps way low, like in the 'teens. Don't have any insight into counterpart water temps, nor whether this is completely credible, but one bubba cited a manufacturer's manual reference that suggested heat should happen even at temps like 10.

-Chris

Well even if the air temp is deep into the single digits, the water temp is at worst just a little below 32F, a lot of heat in 32F water and of course a heat pump is just that, it moves heat around, so yes a heat pump will work, plus some may have heat strips?
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 16:38   #940
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Hatteras 61 CMY, Hatteras 58 Yachtfish, Eastern 21 CC
Posts: 23
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG,

I just saw your post and reviewed several of the 63 pages of responses. If there is detail on them about your budget I missed it. Assuming it is pretty open, have you considered hiring a seasoned captain to help you in this project. He can serve two purposes. He can work with you to refine your requirements and work with brokers to narrow down choices for you.

Then, when you get the boat he can spend a year or two teaching you how to operate it. When you are living on the boat or off on your own for weekends and vacations he can stay in your condo.
__________________
Seachase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 05:59   #941
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,985
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Well even if the air temp is deep into the single digits, the water temp is at worst just a little below 32F, a lot of heat in 32F water and of course a heat pump is just that, it moves heat around, so yes a heat pump will work, plus some may have heat strips?

I reviewed the comments I saw, and didn't quite quote it right. Actually, what he said was that he is getting heat on the boat from his reverse cycle system even with ice on the water. No comment about additional resistance heating...

(Turns out the other part of his comment was about a Fujitzu ductless system in a land installation, and that's the one where he was getting a good supply of hot air at 10 and the manual says it should work to -10.)

Sorry for my original version

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 06:22   #942
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 371
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG:
Just be glad you did NOT need to live aboard in Boston this winter. Hopefully next year will be warmer!!
__________________
chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 06:52   #943
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 398
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Next winter will be warmer for sure, but not in boston. Living aboard in northern winters is a pointless pain. Boats are meant to move with the seasons. If I recall from this thread a year ago GG is looking for a massive floating condo/ship. Living aboard a yacht of that size during winter is very different from a Morgan 41. Luxury yachts can easily afford the vast heating bills to stay toasty. This whole thread could be the new "cruising on $500 a day".
__________________
Horror Hotel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 07:25   #944
Registered User
 
Greggegner's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 406
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

We don't winter on the boat as Milwaukee just doesn't have a dock in a neighborhood that is safe, but we have many cold weekends. I second the use of fans to eliminate cold spots and mold. You need to watch lockers as moisture will gather near the hull. My diesel keeps warm from the hot water heater connection. Ceramic heaters and the heat pump will keep you warm. I have to add a second 30 amp power feed to run the second heater. It is brought in down the cowl. I crack the hatch when cooking and direct a fan to push the steam outside. I suggest putting carpet on the deck and dock as it gets slick with frost. Last year I took a big fall getting off, bowled the dog down the spur, know one was hurt.
__________________
Greggegner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 16:47   #945
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
GG there is always the possibility of cold spots due to the weather exposure or insulation differences. Each boat will be different in this respect. If you find one or more cold spots you may have to take that into account by ducting warmer air from other areas or using fans. This is hard to predict about any given boat it is something you have to observe while living aboard. Some times simple insulation to pipes in a cold spot or added insulation to walls etc. are needed. If you know to look for the problem it will most likely not be a problem that will cause grief.
Got it. Thanks for explaining. That makes good sense.
__________________

__________________
GalaxyGirl
5KidsAndaBoat
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
paracelle

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.