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Old 17-08-2013, 17:38   #721
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I've never had the pleasure of thrusters on a pleasure boat. Most are electric or hydraulic but the nice feature over the main engine is rpm down to zero. When docking, the first thing that causes the new boater problems is when the main engine is in gear either forward or astern, the engine idles at 600~700 rpm and depending on reduction, the prop is swinging at 200~350 rpm. At this prop speed your vessel will move at 3 kt, and hitting a dock at that speed in a 185,000 vessel will wipe the dock out. Bow thrusters are more common than stern thrusters because of both docking technique and the much shorter run of the thruster tube below the water line. As your hull comes to a vee at the bow, the distance from the port side to starboard is a short run of thruster tube. You would come along the dock (with your fenders deployed) and if docking on your port side would end with a hard starboard rudder and slip into neutral, allowing the stern to drift in for tie up. If you misjudged and ran out of speed before the stern reaches the dock, you will have to clunk in and out of gear for a second. You don't want to misjudge with too much speed, always go for too slow. Then you would run your bow thruster to bring the bow in and tie off.

Many ways to dock, wind and current will dictate how you will dock.
Thanks for the virtual docking instruction. I'll remember that, come in slow, not fast.

Reminds of something I read on a cruiser blog yesterday. He said that the first thing that he learned was too never approach a dock at a speed faster than you are prepared to hit it.
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Old 17-08-2013, 17:49   #722
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

If your thinking of a smaller boat (50' or less) this is a cheaper way to go without the need for thruster tunnels. Much cheaper.

Sideshift Bow Thrusters and Stern Thrusters
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Old 17-08-2013, 19:13   #723
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The secret to docking is to get the boat and the dock moving at the same speed.
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Old 17-08-2013, 19:51   #724
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

In many situations where wind and current are present...going slow isn't an option to successfully dock.

That's where experience pays off...you know your actions will have consequences if anything goes wrong...if you can't plan around them...then chosing another slip, marina, etc sometimes is the actions of a good skipper and not of a "dock crasher".

The substitute for experience is thrusters...they often allow you to salvage a bad docking situation...or allow you to make an approach that without them would be nearly impossible.
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Old 17-08-2013, 20:07   #725
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

+1, Bobofthenorth... good one! Bow thruster is more expensive but you get a lot for your $ in convenience and control. In the 'old days', only wusses had them and when stern thrusters came into vogue on pleasure craft, didn't much matter whether you were single or double screw. All of these things came from large commercial vessels and were transferred to smaller pleasure craft.
If you get used to how a boat handles, you can do without either and good to practice using one engine without either so you can handle the issue when things start to break down. That is when you learn that the wind, tide and current are your friend... cheers, Phil
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Old 17-08-2013, 20:25   #726
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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+1, Bobofthenorth... good one! Bow thruster is more expensive but you get a lot for your $ in convenience and control. In the 'old days', only wusses had them and when stern thrusters came into vogue on pleasure craft, didn't much matter whether you were single or double screw. All of these things came from large commercial vessels and were transferred to smaller pleasure craft.
If you get used to how a boat handles, you can do without either and good to practice using one engine without either so you can handle the issue when things start to break down. That is when you learn that the wind, tide and current are your friend... cheers, Phil
That's an excellent point, and one that I will definitely remember. Learn how to dock without them, just in case they break or you will be up craps creek if you can't get them fixed straight away.
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Old 18-08-2013, 06:30   #727
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

gg

bow thrusters are great and a real convenience. unfortunately, the old saying is a truism.

"if you truly are good at docking a boat, you'll never need or use your bow thruster"

why?

because unless you've invested a mega amount in over-dimensioned bow thrusters, they are too weak to move your boat sideways when you have, say a 20 knot sideways wind. the thruster simply isn't strong enough.

you're better off learning how to dock without one.

lots of threads on CF about docking, including on named "docking in heavy weather"

I started it and some of the very best sailors here on CF got involved with how to dock a boat between piling in gale force winds.

a good read. you might not understand everything talked about (probably requires you've tried docking in some heavy winds), but just reading it will give you some idea of the factors (and skills) involved.
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Old 18-08-2013, 06:30   #728
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!
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Old 18-08-2013, 06:31   #729
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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That's an excellent point, and one that I will definitely remember. Learn how to dock without them, just in case they break or you will be up craps creek if you can't get them fixed straight away.

Indeed.

My opinion: Neither bow nor stern thrusters are absolutely required, even with a single-screw keelboat. Spring lines are your next best crew member. And standing off or anchoring in grim weather is often an option if necessary.

OTOH, a bow thruster can make life easier; wouldn't turn one down, and might even consider an aftermarket install if the luxury seems useful.

Ditto stern-thrusters, although I'd mark this one as least necessary (since you main engine prop is near the stern, and "prop-walk" can sorta cause some of the same directional movements). You could add later, if even more luxury is in your wallet.

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Old 18-08-2013, 07:26   #730
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!
This is really an irrational comment and makes and builds on common held assumption.

John Doe makes 50 million in high tech and sees mega yachts in Newport. He wants one. Gets the name of a top broker and say I want a yacht .... budget 5 million. I need captain and crew. He starts to familiarize himself with the world of mega yachts... he'll be owning one as soon as the broker finds one that suits him. He likely has no interest in operating the boat or maintaining it. He's going to pay for that.

OK that is quite an extreme example.

On the other end is the rest of us who start small and build to as big as we can or into the boat that fits our concept of boating/cruising etc.

GG wants and apparently can pay for something that clearly could be a step well down the road for 99.999% of people... who take the traditional path... experience leads to competency and opens options to bigger and so forth.

She is clearly seeking to learn as much as she can because she intends to be more engaged and reach *captain* level of competence as some time in the future. She'll be paying for expertise until then and she knows it. She needs to leapfrog because she wants her children to grow up on the water. I can't see anything wrong with that.

Her challenge is enormous but she is not clueless about this. If you visit her blog you can see how much effort she has and is putting into researching and learning. She's come to his virtual world for the wisdom and support of people who are boat people. She's not afraid to ask questions because she knows.... others do have answers... and not all are the same of that there is one correct answer in many cases.

I can not fault her approach given her circumstances, her resources and her family and time constraints. I am sure she appreciates all comments but the discouraging ones are not helping her with her mission. Those who make them as this comment have a very narrow view to what her circumstances are and what is possible.

Go GGirl Go! We got your back!
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Old 18-08-2013, 08:01   #731
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!

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Old 18-08-2013, 11:02   #732
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!
This attitude has been expressed many different ways on CF about GG. Their comments remind me of two books by George K. Simon, Character Disturbance: The Phenomenon of Our Age, and In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People. He gives some instruction on dealing with character disturbance, and GG seems to be following his advice.
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Old 18-08-2013, 14:47   #733
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!
I think that you, and some others, probably misunderstand my plan, definitely don't know me, and clearly have no clue of what I will, and can do.
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:00   #734
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Eumelia View Post
There is a sort of morbid fascination about this thread. Here this OP has never owned so much as a dinghy but wants to go straight to a 50-ton monstrosity. OP has no apparent mechanical aptitude or innate sense of proportion. I just sincerely hope it all doesn't lead to disaster and tragedy. If she had a healthy dose of caution she would start with something much more reasonable. Please don't egg her on with this folly. We all want to see her succeed but we don't want to be party to a disaster. There are plenty enough disasters unfolding in the world already!
With all due respect, you have no idea what GG's mechanical aptitude is.
I am her Mom, and I can tell you I have never known another woman,
(besides those in trades where they have studied/been trained) who has
more Mechanical & electronical aptitude. Over the weekend I saw her replace an electrical side mirror on her very large ford truck, as well as some
plumbing jobs most men I know can't do. I have seen her replace parts in
fridges, in washer/dryer units, heating furnaces, and she is a dab hand @
trouble shooting problems over the phone with a handy man in her out-of-state property, as far as all mechanical machines/devices that are
common in a house. All this she learned while by doing, watching and asking questions.
I am sure she will transfer that mechanical/electronic aptitude to boat systems just as easily.
But keep discouraging her, as many have in the past, because that only drives her ambition to prove the naysayers wrong, she has in the past
and will in the future, just her nature.
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Old 18-08-2013, 15:00   #735
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Well said, defjef... Phil
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