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Old 16-08-2013, 14:36   #706
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
ok, i'll cheerfully admit to being one of the detractors. and i'
ll also cheerfully apologize if gg goes for it and makes it.

having said that (and i mean it sincerely), gg's dream needs some "down to earth thinking, which is only now showing its ugly head. a big power boat is not the easiest thing in the world to handle, both in docking and when the sea & weather turn rough (i'm not talking hurricaine here, just big time gale).

so considering gg has no open water experience, she needs to either get some, or take a lot of courses so she understands what she is in for. life is **** when the boat is acting like a washing machine. it isn't a disney movie.

i've learned to sail 50 years ago. didn't sail for many years, bought a 22 footer 12 years ago, took all the courses and am now a yacht master 1st class and sail a 40 footer. took the motor certification and am taking an LRC next month so the theory is in place.
over the past 12 years i've sailed about 25,000 nm many overnights and many several days on the water without going in harbour. I sail in the Baltic, Lat 56, where gales are an everyday occurance. Bad weather is the norm.

let's face guys and gals, if you are going to make passage or spend many days and nights on the hook, you need some practical experience if it is going to be safe.

so far,. gg has said she'll hire a crew, but i seriously doubt if a crewed vessel for 1 season will be enough. maybe 2 or 3 if she is very interested in what the skipp does and hangs on his/her shoulder the whole time.

she needs to take some navigation/boathandling instruction (big time) and she needs a lot of practice before she can sail a boat the size she's thinking about.

And i'm not even talking about having the knowledge to choose the right boat for her needs/desires,

Big jump, I hope she makes it, but ill-advised as she is a complete newbie.

Just as an aside, I make my living as a sailing consultant - not that that means anything, but I teach instructors how to teach sailing, and I design sailing and power boat courses, and I'm the consultant the national maritime authorities ask about certification/training/courses etc. So maybe I'm no expert, but this is what I get paid for.
She's just not ready to go sailing a big power boat. she needs crew big time.

My professional opinion.

take it for what it is worth. Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it
What you say makes sense, and good thing I plan to do all of the above. I'm in no hurry, I'll learn and whatever time it takes is what it takes.
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Old 16-08-2013, 14:40   #707
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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WOW! Does this tell the story for us! We're just finishing a sweep of the mid- to north-east coast looking for the right boat. Like you, I didn't want to go through the start small and upgrade process, mostly due to my age. The clock is ticking. 18 boats, from Annapolis to Newport, in 10 days, so far. What a lesson we've learned.

So many times I thought how much easier this process would be if the boat brokerage community took a few cues from the real estate brokerage community. But buying a boat is like the Wild West.

I just wanted you to know we sympathize.

We wish you the best of luck in your quest,
Julie
Thanks Julie for chiming in. I tried to tell them that I am not the only one who has ever done it this way

Good luck to you!!! I will be doing a similar "boat marathon" hopefully in the next couple weeks.

Keep me posted on what you end up buying. I would love to hear.
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Old 16-08-2013, 14:44   #708
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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A temporary (or perhaps occasional is a better description) dock neighbor couple here bought their first boat, two years ago now, I think. A Fleming, I think 65'. They've been steaming back and forth from Vermont (I think) to here, don't know if they've gone south or not... all without additional crew. I've watched them dock, nothing to report (a good thing), looks like they've been doing it forever.

The dealer (next door) is very pro-active about instructing owners, but the couple have pretty much said it's been a non-problem. They too said they didn't want all those in-between steps either, at their time of life.

-Chris
And another example of 2 people successfully handling a 65' boat as their first boat!!! Thank you!!! It can be done and I am not alone.
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Old 16-08-2013, 15:07   #709
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I did notice after your trip to Pease and chatting with Walt you have decided to pass on wooden boats. Progress is being made, so now hull material is down to fiberglass (all those old Hats you have been eyeing) Steel, what you seem to be leaning towards, and aluminum. I like composites for their strength and lightness, but is a newer process and costly for your size. One thing I've liked about metal (aluminum and steel) is the excellent counterpoise it presents for your HF SSB antenna.

GG, what boats have you viewed in person and your impressions?
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Old 16-08-2013, 18:22   #710
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Excuse me for bringing this up and it may have been answered or be completely irrelevant... but...

GG do you see a man in your future? Would have to be a boat man.. aside from being a father figure of sorts. He could be handy around the boat and so forth... No?
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Old 16-08-2013, 18:27   #711
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Is anybody familiar with the term "mental masturbation"???
I use it all the time...
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Old 16-08-2013, 21:17   #712
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Thanks Julie for chiming in. I tried to tell them that I am not the only one who has ever done it this way

Good luck to you!!! I will be doing a similar "boat marathon" hopefully in the next couple weeks.

Keep me posted on what you end up buying. I would love to hear.
Spending time looking at many vessels, including cats and talking with many individuals is an important part of your learning and understanding.

If you don't rush it and take experienced advise you will eventually know the vessel that is right for you.

Be somewhat vary of a vessel with too many systems from a maintainance perspective.

Be prepared and take on that boat marathon. The time and cost will be worthwhile in the long run. An informed decision not rushed.

Keep at it.
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Old 16-08-2013, 21:18   #713
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Ranger42c has some good advice as do many who are not trying to pop your balloon. A 65-70 footer would have the space and amenties you need and frankly, not that hard to handle if properly equipped with bow/stern thrusters, stabilized for offshore and preferably twin engines for maneuverability in tight spaces although not really that necessary if you are equipped with thrusters.
You would surprised how quickly you will pick up boat handling on a vessel that size. The biggest thing you will need to overcome is a feeling of, 'oh ****, what do I do now!' With a competent skipper, you will get yourself in and out of a few dicey spots and your confidence will build quickly. You watch and you learn... the wind and tide can be your friend and with a little planning, you will learn to use them rather than fight them.
You've obviously picked up several good leads on boats from CF... get out there, check them out, fall in love with one of them and go for it! Good luck... Phil
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Old 16-08-2013, 22:37   #714
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

It's the rare insurance company that would insure a first boat worth at least a million to someone with no experience...that couple either had some experience or they have an insurance policy that Warren Buffet couldn't afford.
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Old 17-08-2013, 03:05   #715
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You don't like the looks of a cat? That 52' has all the space you desire. It can be captained by you, but more important during line handling by your kids, there would be a different outcome if there was mis-communication between you and them for a vessel displacing 20,000 lbs vs. 150,000 lbs. Ayla and her mom line handle on a 50,000 lb trawler and there have been some scary moments.

Modern fuel efficient 4 stroke diesels combined with the efficient hull equates to twice the cruise speed with 1/2 the fuel burn.

At the very least, you need to experience close quarters maneuvering with a single screw mono vs a twin screw (with a 15' and greater prop separation) first hand then decide. There is a reason the countries that are known for off shore cruising like Australia, NZ, SA, and France (also UK) have embraced the catamarans like they have.

Don't let your perceived aesthetics rule over function. Of all the family cruising blogs you have read, the common denominator for the kid's discomfort is seasickness. Wouldn't you prefer a boat that minimizes that both underway and in a rolling anchorage?

The price alone should be worth a phone call, don't you think? At a 65% counter offer you could be cruising while your RE agent sells the house instead of waiting for it to sale.
+1

A cat is the way to go for that size power boat. Among the many advantages:
1. Maneuvering
2. Efficiency
3. Stability
4. Redundant power.

I don't like sail cats much, but for power in that size range it's a totally superior solution.
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Old 17-08-2013, 07:15   #716
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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+1

A cat is the way to go for that size power boat. Among the many advantages:
1. Maneuvering
2. Efficiency
3. Stability
4. Redundant power.

I don't like sail cats much, but for power in that size range it's a totally superior solution.
They just don't have the weight carry capability (most of them) for a true liveaboard especially with a bunch of kids,

Stability in many seaways can be not a comfortable motion to cruise with...on a powercat you don't have the sails to dampen any of it.

Any good long distance cruiser is going to have twins or a comehome setup.

Thrusters make twins look silly in many maneuvering situations.

Efficiency is there because they aren't carrying their fair share of weight.
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Old 17-08-2013, 08:29   #717
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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It's the rare insurance company that would insure a first boat worth at least a million to someone with no experience...that couple either had some experience or they have an insurance policy that Warren Buffet couldn't afford.

Yep, that's a point. I didn't ask 'em about that... Although they mentioned house in Vermont (or maybe it was NH) and another house in CA... and it is a new Fleming... so I'm guessing they've got deep pockets, and that might have given them slightly more flexibility.

I didn't ask how long they were tethered to the dealer for instruction and so forth; given that they're only here occasionally, that may have been going on longer rather than shorter...

-Chris
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Old 17-08-2013, 16:25   #718
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Is a bow thruster good enough, or do you need bow and stern?

Anyone know what stern thrusters run, installed?
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Old 17-08-2013, 17:20   #719
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I've never had the pleasure of thrusters on a pleasure boat. Most are electric or hydraulic but the nice feature over the main engine is rpm down to zero. When docking, the first thing that causes the new boater problems is when the main engine is in gear either forward or astern, the engine idles at 600~700 rpm and depending on reduction, the prop is swinging at 200~350 rpm. At this prop speed your vessel will move at 3 kt, and hitting a dock at that speed in a 185,000 vessel will wipe the dock out. Bow thrusters are more common than stern thrusters because of both docking technique and the much shorter run of the thruster tube below the water line. As your hull comes to a vee at the bow, the distance from the port side to starboard is a short run of thruster tube. You would come along the dock (with your fenders deployed) and if docking on your port side would end with a hard starboard rudder and slip into neutral, allowing the stern to drift in for tie up. If you misjudged and ran out of speed before the stern reaches the dock, you will have to clunk in and out of gear for a second. You don't want to misjudge with too much speed, always go for too slow. Then you would run your bow thruster to bring the bow in and tie off.

Many ways to dock, wind and current will dictate how you will dock.

And of course springlines are the poor man's bow thruster which is how I learned.
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Old 17-08-2013, 17:30   #720
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Is a bow thruster good enough, or do you need bow and stern?

Anyone know what stern thrusters run, installed?
You don't need either.

If you have twins a bow thruster is less "needed" than if a single but still unnecessary for either config.

A bow thruster is generally more useful for twins...especially for a twin that steers like crap is trying to maneuver in a single engine situation.

A stern thruster on a single is OK to if you are used to docking singles.

Stern thrusters are usually less expensive as there is no bow tunnel to install...but there are some external bow thrusters on the market if you think they will not get abused as some think they may on trawler type yachts.
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