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Old 16-08-2013, 11:46   #691
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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First of all....a Captain with a 50 ton license with REAL experience on boats that size will blow many a maritime grad out of the water if he's even slightly professional. Unlimited license???? She's going local till the experience builds....a six-pack would do...but I'm sure the insurance would want 50-100 ton.

The insurance company will dictate what experience will be needed for up to about 80 feet...I got news for you..there are plenty of hungry 100 tonners out there that will work for 200-300/day...discounted for longer if you are talking week to 2 week trips a couple times a year so the insurance company will qualify GG to captain herself. She can also get minor certifications that will help speed that process.

There are PLENTY of places that charge WAYYYY less than $3/foot a day to tie up. She could do it at the marina I'm at for $110/foot for the season and if she wanted to negotiate all year for another couple of grand. Most marinas are a fraction of $3 a day when you tie up for a month or more. Maybe not 4&5 star places but that for her to decide.

I said your fuel was maybe high maybe low...right now along the ICW...fuel is much closer to $4/gallon...even less in many places. Last year I averaged less than $3.50 per gallon and she will get bigger discounts because the amount. Just depends where you fuel.
You are better qualified to assist GG in her decisions than me. I hope she learns from your experience. I was only trying to make sense of her desire for the old, heavy displacement boats over modern, efficient, lighter displacement boats. I thought it was an aesthetic concern of hers that the vessel needed to look a certain way and I was trying to sway that towards functional over form.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:58   #692
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Without experience...she may not qualify for a 40-50 footers with many insurance companies and she's not mentioned she's willing or able to do a lengthy in-house course.

What's the difference between some 55 footers and some 80 footers if they have twins and a bow thruster? You keep thinking displacement and the reality is design and equipment. I don't suggest she buy a converted single screw Shrimper with no thrusters...but then again most pro captains I know can't handle one either.

The kids will only benefit if the whole thing is a good, low stress ordeal...which unless GG is one in a million...is gonna be tough because of the total lack of experience at ALL levels. But kids survive and yes even not prefect will get something out of it.

My experience with cruising kids are the vast majority, once mid to late teens are wanting off the boat...that's when they gravitate toward friends and away from the family unit. Somewhat like military kids when moving around just started to become a chore rather than fun and adventure. Kids brought up on boats from 5-6 and younger seem to do better....over 10-12 and they have had a bit too much of society ad house mentality. Some do but not the majority from my 3 times living aboard experience in Ft Lauderdale, Annapolis and now the Jersey Shore.
I agree even more that your experience will be more helpful to GG than mine. What you said about the age of the kids when cruising is spot on, and as for insurance, you know a lot more than me. When I had my Cal 40, because I was singlehanding it, I could only get liability for any damage I might inflict on others, no coverage for my boat.

GG would do good to consult you on her way to the cruising lifestyle.
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Old 16-08-2013, 12:05   #693
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I agree even more that your experience will be more helpful to GG than mine. What you said about the age of the kids when cruising is spot on, and as for insurance, you know a lot more than me. When I had my Cal 40, because I was singlehanding it, I could only get liability for any damage I might inflict on others, no coverage for my boat.

GG would do good to consult you on her way to the cruising lifestyle.
Once aboard...and for a lot of things in life... I'm sure you would be a great help and friend to her....

You just hit my niche in life...as I said...so many ways to do things with boats up to 80 or so feet and I'm right in the middle of it all every day....

I'm pissed at the guy next door (good friend)...he's selling his 55 Viking and has a looker...not only will I miss him...I'll miss running the boat for him (free dinners as I never charge friends).

Now if I could only get paid as a consultant.....hmmmmmm...any takers???? GG?? .
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Old 16-08-2013, 12:47   #694
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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You are better qualified to assist GG in her decisions than me. I hope she learns from your experience. I was only trying to make sense of her desire for the old, heavy displacement boats over modern, efficient, lighter displacement boats. I thought it was an aesthetic concern of hers that the vessel needed to look a certain way and I was trying to sway that towards functional over form.
I have NEVER once talked about wanting a boat to look a certain way, and if I were seeking out a "pretty" boat I would be after a Motor yacht, not a trawler.

I have said that I don't care for the LAYOUT of the cat. I do love the spaciousness of trawler.

And...if your talking functional. Trawlers are very, very functional.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:23   #695
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG,

What psneeld said about the courses you could be taking now to shorten the time of needing captain and crew is valid. Are you learning Rules of the Road and Nav aids now? Also coastal nav and DR, understanding charts, etc?
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:29   #696
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I have NEVER once talked about wanting a boat to look a certain way, and if I were seeking out a "pretty" boat I would be after a Motor yacht, not a trawler.

I have said that I don't care for the LAYOUT of the cat. I do love the spaciousness of trawler.

And...if your talking functional. Trawlers are very, very functional.
That of course is in the eyes of the beholder. I too prefer the looks of a trawler over a motor yacht. But more important to me is the trawler will swing the largest diameter prop that will fit, with the tallest pitch that allows the prop to be slow turning, and a 4 to 1 reduction. Trawler speeds in a trawler that was designed as such is much more efficient than a motor yacht at the same speeds.

What part of the layout of a cat that you don't like? Staterooms are widely spaced from each other giving better privacy and the main salon is like one big family room. Aft deck space when you consider the beams will be close in size is also large and usable. But the winning (hands down) is a vessel that is 20,000 lbs vs 185,000 lbs.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:40   #697
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Someone else might care to explain the basis for the old boating maxim of one hand for the boat. Just in case, at some point in the future, she encounters rough, not extreme, weather.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:44   #698
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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GG,

What psneeld said about the courses you could be taking now to shorten the time of needing captain and crew is valid. Are you learning Rules of the Road and Nav aids now? Also coastal nav and DR, understanding charts, etc?
I agree with Psneed also. That's why I am registered for USCG classes that begin next month. Unfortunately, they don't run many over the summer or I would be done already.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:47   #699
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I agree with Psneed also. That's why I am registered for USCG classes that begin next month. Unfortunately, they don't run many over the summer or I would be done already.
Fantastic, go girl!!!
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:49   #700
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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That of course is in the eyes of the beholder. I too prefer the looks of a trawler over a motor yacht. But more important to me is the trawler will swing the largest diameter prop that will fit, with the tallest pitch that allows the prop to be slow turning, and a 4 to 1 reduction. Trawler speeds in a trawler that was designed as such is much more efficient than a motor yacht at the same speeds.

What part of the layout of a cat that you don't like? Staterooms are widely spaced from each other giving better privacy and the main salon is like one big family room. Aft deck space when you consider the beams will be close in size is also large and usable. But the winning (hands down) is a vessel that is 20,000 lbs vs 185,000 lbs.
Don't care for the cabin design, don't care for the "great room". Don't care for limited exterior space. And...seems everything is plastic.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:54   #701
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Don't care for the cabin design, don't care for the "great room". Don't care for limited exterior space. And...seems everything is plastic.
Well fiberglass, hence the light weight.
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:57   #702
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

ok, i'll cheerfully admit to being one of the detractors. and i'
ll also cheerfully apologize if gg goes for it and makes it.

having said that (and i mean it sincerely), gg's dream needs some "down to earth thinking, which is only now showing its ugly head. a big power boat is not the easiest thing in the world to handle, both in docking and when the sea & weather turn rough (i'm not talking hurricaine here, just big time gale).

so considering gg has no open water experience, she needs to either get some, or take a lot of courses so she understands what she is in for. life is **** when the boat is acting like a washing machine. it isn't a disney movie.

i've learned to sail 50 years ago. didn't sail for many years, bought a 22 footer 12 years ago, took all the courses and am now a yacht master 1st class and sail a 40 footer. took the motor certification and am taking an LRC next month so the theory is in place.
over the past 12 years i've sailed about 25,000 nm many overnights and many several days on the water without going in harbour. I sail in the Baltic, Lat 56, where gales are an everyday occurance. Bad weather is the norm.

let's face guys and gals, if you are going to make passage or spend many days and nights on the hook, you need some practical experience if it is going to be safe.

so far,. gg has said she'll hire a crew, but i seriously doubt if a crewed vessel for 1 season will be enough. maybe 2 or 3 if she is very interested in what the skipp does and hangs on his/her shoulder the whole time.

she needs to take some navigation/boathandling instruction (big time) and she needs a lot of practice before she can sail a boat the size she's thinking about.

And i'm not even talking about having the knowledge to choose the right boat for her needs/desires,

Big jump, I hope she makes it, but ill-advised as she is a complete newbie.

Just as an aside, I make my living as a sailing consultant - not that that means anything, but I teach instructors how to teach sailing, and I design sailing and power boat courses, and I'm the consultant the national maritime authorities ask about certification/training/courses etc. So maybe I'm no expert, but this is what I get paid for.
She's just not ready to go sailing a big power boat. she needs crew big time.

My professional opinion.

take it for what it is worth. Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it
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Old 16-08-2013, 13:58   #703
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Someone else might care to explain the basis for the old boating maxim of one hand for the boat. Just in case, at some point in the future, she encounters rough, not extreme, weather.
That one GG knows, so not to fall on your ass, use those grab rails and handles. Reminds me of being on the cat walks 8 containers high, checking reefer units. I still winch flashing back doing that in heavy seas.
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Old 16-08-2013, 14:24   #704
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I've been in the real estate investment business for over 13 years and I've NEVER had as much confusion buying a house as I am having with choosing a potential boat. I'm very frustrated at this point. There are so many variables and maybe too many choices.
WOW! Does this tell the story for us! We're just finishing a sweep of the mid- to north-east coast looking for the right boat. Like you, I didn't want to go through the start small and upgrade process, mostly due to my age. The clock is ticking. 18 boats, from Annapolis to Newport, in 10 days, so far. What a lesson we've learned.

So many times I thought how much easier this process would be if the boat brokerage community took a few cues from the real estate brokerage community. But buying a boat is like the Wild West.

I just wanted you to know we sympathize.

We wish you the best of luck in your quest,
Julie
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Old 16-08-2013, 14:31   #705
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

A temporary (or perhaps occasional is a better description) dock neighbor couple here bought their first boat, two years ago now, I think. A Fleming, I think 65'. They've been steaming back and forth from Vermont (I think) to here, don't know if they've gone south or not... all without additional crew. I've watched them dock, nothing to report (a good thing), looks like they've been doing it forever.

The dealer (next door) is very pro-active about instructing owners, but the couple have pretty much said it's been a non-problem. They too said they didn't want all those in-between steps either, at their time of life.

-Chris
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