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Old 16-08-2013, 08:47   #676
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I have said this many times before and I will say it again, now. I don not plan to circumnavigate, or travel far, for that matter, until I am very competent. And...even then, I may decide to ship.

I'm not choosing to get a big boat because I want to prove that I can conquer the challenge or get the biggest boat for the money. We have a large family and everyone needs to be comfortable for the adventure to be successful.

I have been trying to get the smallest boat that we can all fit into.

Talking about breaking bones and wild seas, 5 mil dollar budgets and all the rest are just scare tactics, and I have never been the one to buy into that. Sorry, you can try that on some other newbee...
If you have been following...I am not trying to scare...just be factual.

I know where you say you are headed...the size boat you will probably need for the number of people you want...and what most insurance companies will want.

I think some of us are saying that the bills for the required captain (possibly crew) and space for the required extra people need to be factored in....you won't know that till you try and get insurance so better make a connection there so it's a negotiation instead of a disaster. I'm sure your experience in real estate has taught you that.
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Old 16-08-2013, 08:56   #677
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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If you have been following...I am not trying to scare...just be factual.
I wasn't directing the above comment to you or anyone else who has given thoughtful, constructive ideas and responses.

Some of you are very helpful and give angles that I haven't considered and I appreciate that. Others of you are very supportive and encouraging and I really appreciate that also.

Some of you can just be plain mean and unhelpful and I'm not sure why you comment on this thread if you believe that this all a joke anyhow? Boredom maybe...
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Old 16-08-2013, 09:18   #678
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG and others...
I have followed this discussion and read some of GG's blog. It's all interesting and I find as difficult as what she is attempting is, I fell that she completely understands this intellectually.. she's a smart lady, apparently a great mom and a visonary. Good on all that. She's come here and I am sure other places for advice and counsel and there's been some wisdom here despite all the nay sayers.. She's not rushing into anything despite it appearing that she is sort of leap frogging over the steps that most boat people seem to take and for good reason... they have to because their circumstances dictate no other possibility. GG has a unique set of circumstances and is attempting a big jump. But no inherent reason why she HAS to make the small steps. IN her case it appears it does not fit into her dream of having her kids raised on a boat. She's doing this for her kids and she's not going to put them in jeopardy...PERIOD FULL STOP.

I think she can and will do this and I also think that there are people out there and on here which will generously help her as they can. I believe she is fully cognizant of the challenges and approaching each methodically and in the best way she can. I don't think she is blinding herself to the hurdles in her path. She sees them and she is seeking strategies to get over them.

While I personally cannot imagine doing what she is doing because I am not a single mom with 5 kids and a wad of cash I want her to succeed and believe she will and can't if she doesn't go for it... and precisely as she is.

She does need to be made aware of the full extent of the undertaking... she's right about the negativism and mean spirited comments. They are not productive.

I await the next chapter of the saga... I sense a phase shift coming.
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Old 16-08-2013, 09:50   #679
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

When new bought the Eagle is as stark/shippy/naked as the previous owner cruised up and down the Pacific coast. Mainly California Mexico. So we glitz pimped the boat out, and make her a dock queen. However, we have kept her blue/rough water capable. We kept every thing built in and fundamentally basically the same, just glitzer/shiner/pimped.

If you looked at the Eagle right now as its been a dock condo for 15+ years it is not ready blue rough water/weather. However for the protect water of the Puget we do not take down/store anything. The main reason is we do not go out in rough water or bad weather, We been caught a few times but the Eagle is big heavy and stable enough there are only a couple of thing we have to take down. Jewelry rack as it gets all tangle up, some picture and items on counter tops. I did not put railings on the slate counter tops yet but with those rubber place mat thingies thing saty put. The only thing I can remember falling over was the high flower vase which we forgot to put in the sink. Yes we have flowers and plants on the boat.

So don’t look at the surface clutter stuff, but the fundamental/basics of what the boat was designed and capable to be.
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Old 16-08-2013, 10:00   #680
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG , buy a nice 65 foot mobo. don't mind the detractors or sail zealots

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Old 16-08-2013, 10:18   #681
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG,

I'm sorry, the $5 mil wasn't meant to be a scare tactic. There is a reason there are so many older mega yachts for sale. The rich that can afford them move on to new builds. The operating costs with crew are higher for these older boats. For grins and giggles, lets say you go with a much older 90' 185,000 lb displacement yacht, and you cruise 1/3 of the year and are in a slip 2/3 of the year. Crew's wages are a guess for me so I'll just run the numbers on what I know, (3) deckofficers, Unlimited.

For one year, 10,000 nm

Slip fees $65,000
Crew $325,000
Fuel $63,000
Food provisions 18,000
Boat ins $25,000

I've left out a lot like haul outs, repairs, paint, etc but even so, close to 1/2 a mil a year. If your plans are for 10 years of family cruising you easily have that $5 mil price tag.

Costs per year, same cruising scenario, but in a vessel you can captain, like the Wright powercat

Slip fees $30,000
Crew N/A
Fuel $16,000
Food provisions $10,000
Boat Ins $4000

$60,000 per year when you captain a smaller displacement boat

VS

$496,000 per year on a crewed, old mega yacht.

If you cruise for 10 years, you have run through pretty much $5 mil. The crew costs are probably high due to being based on Unlimited license holders but bear in mind I didn't include repairs, haul outs, and paint.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:00   #682
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

She's NOT buying a mega yacht (not sure 90 feet even qualifies anymore..especially with some of the expedition type trawlers)....75-80 feet would be more than enough (but hard to find) and only crewed when underway...with temp skippers to meet insurance requirements (I know I am one)..

There are lot's of places to keep a boat that aren't nearly expensive as you say... your fuel figure is probably low if she moves a lot or really high if she just cruises a couple hundred miles with a paid captain. That is until insurance says it's OK and the now gone captain's wages will pay for fuel....

Run all the numbers you want and I can blow holes in them...much like the cruising on $500/month threads...there's always 2 ways to do thing if not more.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:15   #683
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Those crew costs were derived for only being underway for 1/3 a year. I'll admit the crew costs could pared down a bit, but it would be reassuring to have at least one of the crew being a 4 year academy graduate with Unlimited license. That person's wages for 122 days would be $106,666 based on 2001 pay scales.

Fuel based on 10000 nm per year at a burn of 0.8 nm/gallon @ $5.00 per gallon.

Slip rates were averaged out to $3.00 per foot per day for a dock structure that can handle the windage of her vessel.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:22   #684
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Is anybody familiar with the term "mental masturbation"???
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:25   #685
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Aaaahhh, yes.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:26   #686
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I trust it was good for you!!
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:35   #687
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Those crew costs were derived for only being underway for 1/3 a year. I'll admit the crew costs could pared down a bit, but it would be reassuring to have at least one of the crew being a 4 year academy graduate with Unlimited license. That person's wages for 122 days would be $106,666 based on 2001 pay scales.

Fuel based on 10000 nm per year at a burn of 0.8 nm/gallon @ $5.00 per gallon.

Slip rates were averaged out to $3.00 per foot per day for a dock structure that can handle the windage of her vessel.
First of all....a Captain with a 50 ton license with REAL experience on boats that size will blow many a maritime grad out of the water if he's even slightly professional. Unlimited license???? She's going local till the experience builds....a six-pack would do...but I'm sure the insurance would want 50-100 ton.

The insurance company will dictate what experience will be needed for up to about 80 feet...I got news for you..there are plenty of hungry 100 tonners out there that will work for 200-300/day...discounted for longer if you are talking week to 2 week trips a couple times a year so the insurance company will qualify GG to captain herself. She can also get minor certifications that will help speed that process.

There are PLENTY of places that charge WAYYYY less than $3/foot a day to tie up. She could do it at the marina I'm at for $110/foot for the season and if she wanted to negotiate all year for another couple of grand. Most marinas are a fraction of $3 a day when you tie up for a month or more. Maybe not 4&5 star places but that for her to decide.

I said your fuel was maybe high maybe low...right now along the ICW...fuel is much closer to $4/gallon...even less in many places. Last year I averaged less than $3.50 per gallon and she will get bigger discounts because the amount. Just depends where you fuel.

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Old 16-08-2013, 11:38   #688
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I just think that cruising can be such a positive experience for kids. Either way GG does it, the kids will benefit. They will respect their mom for all the work she put in at RE to afford this, and respect their mom for learning to navigate and seamanship. The question is how big is her cruising kitty? Should she scale back the boat purchase to a displacement she can handle after some training, or stay on this course and hire out? She knows her budget, so she will decide.

Personally I would go with a newer, smaller displacement boat that the insurance company deems her qualified to operate after some training.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:41   #689
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I don't know if you have considering two smaller boats rather than one big one.
The kids might really like having their 'own'. As you must have a captain to move them anyway. And resell will be easier for two small than one large. And as the kids get older, they might just move out and so only one boat needed in the future, or they can pilot their 'own' boat if one persists to the notion. Maybe a sailboat for one, a power for the other? I always preach diversity, don't put all in one basket.
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Old 16-08-2013, 11:46   #690
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I just think that cruising can be such a positive experience for kids. Either way GG does it, the kids will benefit. They will respect their mom for all the work she put in at RE to afford this, and respect their mom for learning to navigate and seamanship. The question is how big is her cruising kitty? Should she scale back the boat purchase to a displacement she can handle after some training, or stay on this course and hire out? She knows her budget, so she will decide.

Personally I would go with a newer, smaller displacement boat that the insurance company deems her qualified to operate after some training.
Without experience...she may not qualify for a 40-50 footers with many insurance companies and she's not mentioned she's willing or able to do a lengthy in-house course.

What's the difference between some 55 footers and some 80 footers if they have twins and a bow thruster? You keep thinking displacement and the reality is design and equipment. I don't suggest she buy a converted single screw Shrimper with no thrusters...but then again most pro captains I know can't handle one either.

The kids will only benefit if the whole thing is a good, low stress ordeal...which unless GG is one in a million...is gonna be tough because of the total lack of experience at ALL levels. But kids survive and yes even not prefect will get something out of it.

My experience with cruising kids are the vast majority, once mid to late teens are wanting off the boat...that's when they gravitate toward friends and away from the family unit. Somewhat like military kids when moving around just started to become a chore rather than fun and adventure. Kids brought up on boats from 5-6 and younger seem to do better....over 10-12 and they have had a bit too much of society ad house mentality. Some do but not the majority from my 3 times living aboard experience in Ft Lauderdale, Annapolis and now the Jersey Shore.
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