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Old 13-08-2013, 16:12   #601
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I have 5 kids. I'm fairly confident (even without any experience) that cruising families w ith kids won't care what kind of boat we are on.
I' m completely sure that other kids won't care.
I'm just going by my last experience in the Sea of Cortez. Powerboats like the ones you are interested in don't anchor out much, and when they do it is in an anchorage populated by other powerboats. It isn't an anti social thing but for most of the sailing crowd they prefer quiet over the roar of many generators. I have anchored in a small, quiet cove in Mexico only to move on after a couple of powerboats also anchored, with gen sets running 24/7. There is no reason (other than the power hungry HVAC and other large systems) that powerboats couldn't spec fridge and freezers so that 500 watts of solar panels would allow them to be quiet on the hook, but that isn't the mindset of powerboaters, hence the gen-set runs constantly.
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:18   #602
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I'm just going by my last experience in the Sea of Cortez. Powerboats like the ones you are interested in don't anchor out much, and when they do it is in an anchorage populated by other powerboats. It isn't an anti social thing but for most of the sailing crowd they prefer quiet over the roar of many generators. I have anchored in a small, quiet cove in Mexico only to move on after a couple of powerboats also anchored, with gen sets running 24/7. There is no reason (other than the power hungry HVAC and other large systems) that powerboats couldn't spec fridge and freezers so that 500 watts of solar panels would allow them to be quiet on the hook, but that isn't the mindset of powerboaters, hence the gen-set runs constantly.
I hear what your saying about the quiet thing, but belive me, cruising kids will find eachother either way. Families go out of there way for meet ups. No one is going to ignore a boat load of kids just because they are at the dock.
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:24   #603
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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So your vote is for too big. I can respect those comments.

Over last weekend, we were docked in St. Micheals near a 29m Inace explorer/expedition yacht, very similar to this one: Buy Explorer Yachts- Inace 83 Expedition Yacht

It was more like a ship than a "yacht." The 29m info was from her AIS transmission; if I remember, the name was "Imperatus" or something similar. I don't see where she is just now... but maybe she's in transit somewhere...

They were laid up against the long dock at the town's very premium marina/inn. There is one other long dock in town that could handle a vessel of that length/beam/draft. Given what we were paying for our 50' slip... I'd guess they were paying in the neighborhood of $400+/day for that, although that's just an informed estimate... and they may have gotten some discount for number of days

I think I counted 3 crew who's job while in port seemed to be to keep the boat clean. No insight into what their sea duties might be.

All the points about size/weight/expense being logarithmic in relationship to length are right on the money. Add one foot of beam -- multiplied by 90' (or whatever) feet of length -- and volume/displacement increases dramatically.

There's probably some sweet spot when it comes to size appropriate for the required number of berths versus learning versus initial cost versus upkeep versus running expenses, etc.

-Chris
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:26   #604
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

P
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rw58ph brings up a point that I have mentioned in the past, insurance requirements for the size vessels you are looking at. Nice to have a stateroom for each kid, but they will be displaced out of their staterooms for the captain and crew. With you and Nana on the Wright in the Caribbean, at the cruise speed it will run, there will be no overnight passages as most islands are within 150 nm of each other, plus like I've said many times, you can captain that vessel.
You're right, phil makes an excellent point about ins., which you have also mentioned many times as well. It would b very tricky to get on a 90' boat.

Don't forget the Caribbean really isn't my travel goal. I'll swing through at some point, but there are other places that I am much more excited about cruising. I'm not choosing a boat based on best suitability for Caribbean waters. I want a passagemaking boat.
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:34   #605
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG,

I understand sailboats aren't everyone's cup of tea for whatever reasons. As I get older, I'm giving some thought to power. What I don't understand is your desire of a boat of such displacement that requires a captain and crew. The Wright powercat meets your berth number requirement and you can captain it. Isn't it better to give up some palatial comforts for not needing strangers to come and run it for each passage? Are you concerned that you can't learn navigation, boat systems, and boat handling?
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:34   #606
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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There is no reason (other than the power hungry HVAC and other large systems) that powerboats couldn't spec fridge and freezers so that 500 watts of solar panels would allow them to be quiet on the hook, but that isn't the mindset of powerboaters, hence the gen-set runs constantly.

Yeah, although I think there's some chicken-egg thing going on there, too.

I think most powerboats makers haven't been particularly proactive about less expensive and quiet energy consumption, so some power boaters who would be interested in that can't really find too many affordable (read: pre-owned, in many cases) candidates. But yes, that market tends to marina hop, or run the noise box at anchor... whether AC is necessary or not...

Ditto "green" propulsion. Nigel Calder has been experimenting, of course, and some of the makers have come to market with recent candidates... but most of those are so new they're not easily affordable in the secondary market yet.

It'd be interesting to spec out a solar system for our own boat, and I may get around to that as (if) spare cash rears it's head, but the real estate for solar panels would be a bit tight...

-Chris
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:40   #607
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Yeah, although I think there's some chicken-egg thing going on there, too.

I think most powerboats makers haven't been particularly proactive about less expensive and quiet energy consumption, so some power boaters who would be interested in that can't really find too many affordable (read: pre-owned, in many cases) candidates. But yes, that market tends to marina hop, or run the noise box at anchor... whether AC is necessary or not...

Ditto "green" propulsion. Nigel Calder has been experimenting, of course, and some of the makers have come to market with recent candidates... but most of those are so new they're not easily affordable in the secondary market yet.

It'd be interesting to spec out a solar system for our own boat, and I may get around to that as (if) spare cash rears it's head, but the real estate for solar panels would be a bit tight...

-Chris
They are slowly coming around, as the Greenline 33 is selling quite well. This little cruiser can travel 25 nm per day just on solar and batteries. Once on the hook, with 1.3 Kwh of panels, the owners never need to run the diesel to charge up.
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Old 13-08-2013, 16:42   #608
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Over last weekend, we were docked in St. Micheals near a 29m Inace explorer/expedition yacht, very similar to this one: Buy Explorer Yachts- Inace 83 Expedition Yacht

It was more like a ship than a "yacht." The 29m info was from her AIS transmission; if I remember, the name was "Imperatus" or something similar. I don't see where she is just now... but maybe she's in transit somewhere...

They were laid up against the long dock at the town's very premium marina/inn. There is one other long dock in town that could handle a vessel of that length/beam/draft. Given what we were paying for our 50' slip... I'd guess they were paying in the neighborhood of $400+/day for that, although that's just an informed estimate... and they may have gotten some discount for number of days

I think I counted 3 crew who's job while in port seemed to be to keep the boat clean. No insight into what their sea duties might be.

All the points about size/weight/expense being logarithmic in relationship to length are right on the money. Add one foot of beam -- multiplied by 90' (or whatever) feet of length -- and volume/displacement increases dramatically.

There's probably some sweet spot when it comes to size appropriate for the required number of berths versus learning versus initial cost versus upkeep versus running expenses, etc.

-Chris

Aw Chris, that's the dreamboat I had on the blog. I love that boat.
You're right figuring out the balance between comfort, learning, crew and maintenance is not easy.
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Old 13-08-2013, 17:19   #609
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

The windward islands are mostly less the 60 nm apart... not even an overnight passage.

And there ain't too many docks.

Just sayin'
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Old 13-08-2013, 18:43   #610
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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P



Don't forget the Caribbean really isn't my travel goal. I'll swing through at some point, but there are other places that I am much more excited about cruising. I'm not choosing a boat based on best suitability for Caribbean waters. I want a passagemaking boat.
I've done my best to transfer your dreamer phase to reality phase. If the Med is where you want to cruise, either buy a boat there or ship a local boat there. Crossing the Northern Atlantic on your hull isn't something I would recommend for you and the kids, but can be done. Your longest leg would be from St. Johns (Newfoundland) to Horta (Azores) at just a tad under 1200 nm. That 52' powercat could pull it off at 6~8 kt on its tankage of 422 gallons, but just barely. For a safety margin (10) 6 gallon fuel jugs strapped on the aft deck would be a comfort. If you really want to cruise the world on your hull (again I would just ship the boat), and you don't want to sail, then efficient hulls, modern diesels, and light displacement should be at the top of your list. In long distance passage making, there is a huge difference between 0.8 nm per gallon fuel burn and 3~4 nm per gallon.
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Old 13-08-2013, 20:00   #611
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We have gone 40 pages on this thread and I'm still not sure of your intentions. Will you always hire a captain for each boat move? Will you anchor out or marina hop? Will the kids be home (boat) schooled with Calvert? What is the first destination(s)?
Why do you keep doing this?

Over 600 posts on this thread alone...and its not the only thread...what is the point?
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Old 13-08-2013, 20:04   #612
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Hi GG. I vote too big.
I'd take the kids on board a few boats and check their reactions to room size. You might find they like a small funkey room in preference to spacious. Some boat designers make small odd shaped rooms look special, snug, cosy, and really a great deal more teenagee than the standard room size.
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Old 13-08-2013, 20:14   #613
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I hear what your saying about the quiet thing, but belive me, cruising kids will find eachother either way. Families go out of there way for meet ups. No one is going to ignore a boat load of kids just because they are at the dock.
Spoken with all the authority of someone who has never done it. Your kids won't even know that their fellow cruising kids exist if you're tied up on a t-dock and the real cruisers are anchored out thirty miles away. Or even 5 miles away for that matter.

You'll be a lot happier in the long run if you buy a (smaller) starter boat that you know is a starter boat and figure it out by doing. But I don't know why you'd believe me when you've clearly ignored everyone else who has given you exactly the same advice. Over and over and over.
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Old 13-08-2013, 20:51   #614
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

GG, One thing to remember is a your looking at a SHIP, not a boat! I personaly think the Vessel in seattle is perfect, if your looking for a vessel to take you anywhere, in safety and comfort! The size is hell for big but shes hell for stout also! Sure you will have to have captain and crew till you get properly Lic. and such. And as others have said you will need a competant engine room person aboard! But again it's all a matter of dollars!! My real suggestion is look for the same type of vessel in a smaller size!! There are others in the same area for sale Im sure! And I know that someone on here maybe Minaret will know a GOOD Broker that will work for you !! Keep a stiff upper lip as they say and keep looking Im sure you will find a boat that will suit you and your needs ! We are all for ya !!
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Old 13-08-2013, 21:11   #615
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I'm with bobconnie in the advice department. She is a small ship and you would need a licensed Captain plus at leat 2 experienced (watch standing) crew to take her from Seattle to the Northeast US, one of which should have engineering experience as well to deal with the inevitable mechanical problems you will encounter. You need to factor in a specific licensed Captain for your transit through the canal which requires an additional certification over a certain length of vessel along with the requisite number of line handlers.
As an alternative, head west the long way around and have lots of $ for fuel, crew and repairs.
Looking in the Med might be a good idea... continued good fortune to you in your search, GG... regards, Phil
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