Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-02-2013, 19:54   #346
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Looks like it would be a great delivery!! LOL Gee Dec Off. need a mate lol and Connie said she wil be glad to cook !!
__________________

__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 01:55   #347
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Well, the cat is finally out of the bag. On the face of it, it looks like possibly a good deal and it looks like you and your family will be able to live aboard with a reasonable degree of comfort.

JUST IN CASE, make sure you have a couple of half-sheets of 3/4" exterior plywood on hand before making the crossing. Motor yacht windows have been known to get pounded in by big seas. Of course one would hope that with well thought weather routing that such conditions would not be encountered.

Don't worry about stabilizers or lack thereof. Adds complexity and they aren't dependable anyway IMO. Better to practice good discipline in keeping things secured, even stuff that you would never think would go flying or rolling. Besides having to buy fuel, the other major disadvantage to motor boats is the motion of the ocean affects them a lot more than an equivelant tonnage sailing vessel. It will take you a few days to get used to the rolling and you will probably end up sweeping up pieces of a few things while you learn just how diligent you got to be in tying stuff down. After a week or so you will hardly even have to think about it, though. The rolling? Just learn to live with it. If you got stabilizers, I suggest trying to get along without using them for a while, because a well engineered system makes a big difference, but if they fail you are in for a rude awakening if you aren't familiar with the motion without them.

Take whatever seasickness remedy you prefer a couple hours before leaving protected waters. Two schools of thought seem to prevail... take the stuff well before encountering possible nausea inducing conditions and never get sick in the first place, or buck up and get used to the motion cold turkey, puke your guts out for a day or two, and probably never get sick again. What does NOT work is waiting till you feel sick to take something for it. The first time you heave, that's it... too late. Be prepared for temporary changes of heart on the boating stuff... it is not unusual to suddenly decide that you have no business at sea, but the feeling passes the first morning you wake up and realize it is a beautiful day, and the gentle or not so gentle movements of the boat are actually sort of comforting. So resist the urge to call for an immediate return to port after the first couple of hours of nausea. Remember, in all but a few people, it soon passes and you develop a tolerance to the motion.

Good luck and I wish I was going with you, GG. It's always a pleasure to bring new blood into our little world, and help folks get started, even if it is on a motor boat.
__________________

__________________
GrowleyMonster
1976 Cal 2-27, MR WIGGLES
Now with clean, dependable electric propulsion!
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 02:43   #348
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Just a couple of my pet safety rules that too many folks ignore.

1. Anyone on deck alone, wears a harness and clips in to something unless they are in constant view of the lookout.

2. Someone must check the engine room in person every hour. Check the bilge, I don't care how many bilge alarms or automatic bilge pumps you have. Not just for water level, but also for the presence of stuff other than water such as oil or fuel. You are looking for unusual vibration, noise, smoke or fumes, or heat. Obviously, leaks, too. Keep the engines clean so you can immediately spot leaks.

3. Drain water out of traps or filters daily.

4. Monitor VHF channel 16 at all times. Yes, the chatter can be annoying, but that ship you don't see overtaking you might be trying to call you. The rose has its thorns and we just have to accept them.

5. Make sure you have all the appropriate day shapes and lights, particularly those that tell others you are anchored or disabled. Small boats are nearly universal in their ignorance of the proper use of dayshapes or identifying lights.

6. Yes, I know, it's not a 50,000 ton ship with a crew of 26, but you still need to conduct drills. Man overboard, fire, flooding, medical emergency, etc. Think up realistic scenarios. You know a lot of fires start in the galley, the engine room, or the laundry room, right? Attack a genuine likely scenario so you have a clue when it actually happens. Make a man overboard dummy and toss it over. What next? Yell! Get attention! Keep the victim in sight and make sure the bridge watch knows. What to do on the bridge? Don't just stop... google "Williamson Turn" which is a good maneuver for when you don't know exactly where the person is, because it returns you on a reciprocal course on more or less your original track. Practice racetrack turns, which are often the fastest way to recover a victim when you can see him. Got a man overboard pole or other marker? You want to be able to immediately drop flotation and visibility aids. Even if the person can't swim to them, they mark the general area. Smoke and a strobe. Radar reflector? Sure! Then, how do you get them out of the water once you are along side? Work it all out in drills, instead of waiting til you got to do it for real. It could save a life. I know, it sounds so negative and un-fun to dream up disasters, but you got to do it so you can run meaningful drills.

7. Make sure people know where you are and what's going on, and who is on the boat with you. Leave a float plan with the relevant port state control authority as well as with relatives. Your float plan should include not just your itinerary but also names and addresses of next of kin for every person onboard. Check in regularly. An Iridium satellite phone is a lot handier and easier to use than a Marine HF radio for keeping in touch. Air time is getting cheaper... well under $1/minute in many cases. A new Motorola 9555 runs I think around $1700 and you can get a used 9505 for around $500. The new one I think has USB connectivity so you can send and recieve email and stuff. The old one needs a serial port or a serial port adapter to connect to your computer and these things can give problems. When you check in, always update your position and ETA. Check in on a schedule so if nobody hears from you, they know that there might be a problem.

This list is certainly not exhaustive... just a few things I felt compelled to suggest. I am sure whoever you get for the delivery will know what they are doing, but none of us are perfect and many experienced and well meaning folks have various little weaknesses in their overall safety and security strategy. These are just a few things to insist upon, if you don't see them being implemented.
__________________
GrowleyMonster
1976 Cal 2-27, MR WIGGLES
Now with clean, dependable electric propulsion!
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 03:52   #349
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Very good safety points Growleymonster.

There are also electronic safety devices:

East Marine - marine accessories equipment and repairs
Man overboard alert

Sail-World.com : World-first AIS/GPS personal device approved for sale
Man overboard personal locator beacon

Depth sounder

Radar

VHF radio with AIS

GPS

Chart plotter

Marine radio

SSB receiver for weather fax

Consider high frequency radio amateur transceiver with General License instead of SSB receiver. Can also be used for email and voice communication with shore and other boats

Lightning rods if not metal boat

Faraday cage in case of lightning strike containing backup VHF and GPS. A microwave oven, cash box, or an army surplus ammunition box can function as a Faraday cage.

Life jackets

Life raft

Fire extinguishers

I've probably forgotten important items.
__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 04:49   #350
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

BOOKS AND PUBS

The American Practical Navigator ("Bowditch")

Relevant volumes of Sailing Directions

Relevant volumes of Coast Pilot

World Port Index

COLREGS (Rules Of The Road)

current year Nautical Almanac (Sight reduction tables, H.O. 229 optional, depending on whether skipper is a celestial buff or not. There are concise tables in the almanac for emergency use.)

BA Total Tide or equivelant software. Paper tables are a PITA.

Relevant charts and mid-ocean plotting sheets.

Most chart agencies will have these items.


EQUIPMENT

Westwind's list is a good one but make sure you have some sort of handheld GPS device that runs on batteries. The idea is to have a backup in the event of total loss of electrical power. By the same token, have a good supply of fresh batteries on hand for it.

Signal Flags and Day Shapes as well as flags for all countries you will be visiting along the way. You can be fined in some countries for not flying your yellow quarantine flag before you are cleared into the country, for example, or not displaying the country's flag while in their waters.

Don't forget to check for all USCG required safety items such as flares, smoke, fire extenguishers, live jackets and throwable devices, etc. Make sure that you have sufficient quantities and correct types, too. Google is your friend.

EPIRB! It will need to be programmed with an MMSI, which means you will need a ship station license from the FCC or the equivelant agency of the flag state of the vessel. Have the broker assist you in applying for a U.S. Certificate of Documentation and also Ship Station License. He will probably be familiar with the process. You need MMSI for your AIS and for your GMDSS compliant VHF, as well. EPIRB is an Emergency Position Indicating Rescue Beacon. When activated, it sends a signal to a satellite which is recieved by an earth station, and initiates a rescue. This is one piece of emergency equipment that positively does save lives and you REALLY need to have one on an ocean crossing.

Your hired skipper should know all that, but he should not be offended if you are checking over his shoulder and making sure these details are attended to. People forget or overlook stuff, even competent folks. Plus it gets your finger on the pulse of what owning a boat is all about. It's not all yo ho ho and a bottle of rum. Lots of red tape, too.

Sextant. If your skipper is like, "Huh? We don't need that! We got a GPS!" then you might reconsider your choice of skippers. You are looking at a major ocean voyage, and someone onboard needs to be able to navigate even when all the modern 21st century stuff fails. For emergency use only, a Davis plastic sextant will do, though I would definitely recommend a new Astra IIIb, especially for learning, if you think you want to learn how to be a real Navigator. www.celestaire.com is your friend. They got lots of other cool stuff for the Navigator or the wannabe Navigator, too.
__________________
GrowleyMonster
1976 Cal 2-27, MR WIGGLES
Now with clean, dependable electric propulsion!
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 05:05   #351
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Dear GG, if this is indeed the yacht, do check out this link.

http://www.simpsonmarine.com/en/about-us/hong-kong.aspx
__________________
DustyFog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 06:54   #352
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

You've gotten loads and loads of good advice here. I would just add one thing:

Doing a big project like this involves -- to use a real estate metaphor -- a whole lot of design work besides the construction work. Don't try to skip straight to the construction phase -- you need to really work out the design of what you want to do first, and you should keep in mind that the design work of any project like this costs a significant amount of time and money.
'
I think it would be madness to run out and buy a 65 foot power boat without having spent a fair amount of time on similar boats first.

You should not scrimp on research, research, and more research, including flying all over the place looking at boats, and spending a lot of time chartering different boats, too.

When I was buying my boat, I spent probably $20,000 just on travel looking at different boats, and that was after decades of experience sailing, and this was not my first boat.

If I were you, I would start out with a crewed charter with a professional captain, get out there and see how you like it. Milk the professional captain for tips and information. Spend a few vacations like that, and meanwhile get some training and get a qualifiation to operate such a vessel yourself.

You might really be very well served to buy a "starter" boat first before cutting your land ties - take your kids out for weekends for a couple of years before you move them aboard. That way both your kids and you will know what you like and don't like about this lifestyle, and you will make much better decisions -- not just the choice of boat. You will also get a good idea of the costs and work involved in maintaining a large power boat.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 07:39   #353
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On a boat!
Posts: 118
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Good post. Thats what I've been doing. Safety is all about knowing your boat & having a sense of responsibility for the welfare of others, its not about the size of the boat.
I suspect some critics may be "overwhelmed by self importance."
And oddly, for some reason, big boats are easier to maneuver than small ones a lot of the time. They just aren't as forgiving if you do something wrong with all that mass moving.

GG, Big key point about moving a big heavy boat. Do it SLOWLY. As in engines at idle and transmissions in neutral. Blip an engine into gear, pull it back to neutral and see what she does. Give another blip of power to correct, Spring lines are your friend for moving the boat sideways, too. You'll have a lot of windage if that boat is the one you're getting, so get used to how it affects the boat, as well as current. Moving water pushes a lot harder than moving air at any given speed, and it can get you sideways fast if you don't expect it.

That said, the truth is always simple when it comes to docking. Drive the boat into the slip slowly, stop it and tie up. The devil's in the details.

Hard lesson for some folks but critical: Use your kids for deck hands, but keep them safe and above ALL, be a completely non-yelling captain. Teach them to handle the lines for you and talk to them calmly on the loud hailer which should be attached to your vhf. With kids their age, it's pretty quick to teach them a cleat hitch and to never get between the boat and the pilings.

If you make them part of the crew, teaching them to stand watch, handle lines, do maintenance and everything else, they'll probably LOVE being on the boat.
__________________
H Romberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 07:40   #354
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On a boat!
Posts: 118
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Oh yeah, and once you teach them to run the tender, you're gonna need a second one cause you won't get them out of it. :-)
__________________
H Romberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 07:51   #355
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 371
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

The advice being offered by some on this thread, though in good spirit, is simplistic in the extreme to a person apparently with no experience whatsoever who is intent on buying a seriously large vessel as her first entry into boating. Not clear from the other postings whether she intends to ship it back (on a freighter) or sail it back. If the latter, then she needs an experienced professional captain and crew who can inspect and make good/update any required equipment, supplies, spares etc before setting off. This in itself is probably a several weeks undertaking, despite any claims to the contrary by the sellers. This is a long voyage all the way to New England via the Panama. And I strongly disagree with those who think stabilizers (of some sort) are not required. This vessel will roll like a bastard without them!!
__________________
chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 08:01   #356
Marine Service Provider
 
beachbum29's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
Still no invite to the unveiling party
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 08:48   #357
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On a boat!
Posts: 118
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjs View Post
The advice being offered by some on this thread, though in good spirit, is simplistic in the extreme to a person apparently with no experience whatsoever who is intent on buying a seriously large vessel as her first entry into boating. Not clear from the other postings whether she intends to ship it back (on a freighter) or sail it back. If the latter, then she needs an experienced professional captain and crew who can inspect and make good/update any required equipment, supplies, spares etc before setting off. This in itself is probably a several weeks undertaking, despite any claims to the contrary by the sellers. This is a long voyage all the way to New England via the Panama. And I strongly disagree with those who think stabilizers (of some sort) are not required. This vessel will roll like a bastard without them!!
She's shipping it from what she said, and plans to hire a person familiar with such vessels to teach her to run it. Anyone can learn to run a boat of that scale if they're reasonably smart and mechanically inclined. It'll be a hell of a learning curve for all of them, but it's doable. It all depends on how much she really wants to bite off. This is a big first bite. The systems still work the same though. Everything's just bigger and more expensive when it breaks. If she has the funds to handle that, and the judgment to be careful as heck, she can do it. That's up to her.

As for rolling, Well, let's just say sticky putty to hold stuff down is as important as sea legs. That boat looks like the kind where you want to be slogging into the seas if they kick up any. Either that or stock up on Dramamine.

I remember when I got my first "big" (37') sailboat and how much everything intimidated me. I wouldn't have had the huevos to snag anything this big without a full time teacher to bring me up to speed. I hope she jumps feet first into learning mode, but it sounds like that's what she intends to do. If she does, she should be OK.

Pot stirring comment: I wonder how much of the doomsaying is due to her gender.
__________________
H Romberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2013, 13:00   #358
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Automatic Identification System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have radar and VHF radio with AIS that also has firmware built into these items that tells if you are on a collision course with another boat. An alarm will sound several miles away if you are going to run into another boat. Get a Class A AIS as it makes you look like a large ship. There is also a rumor that many ships will not let Class B AIS to be shown on their monitors as it clutters things up too much.

Mains electricity by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Consider an isolation transformer. This prevents electrolysis corrosion (very bad thing) that can occur in a marina with boats made of dissimilar metals. One boat metal can eat up the metal of another. The boats are connected by the shore power and create a kind of battery. Aluminum is especially vulnerable. There are cheaper solutions, but a failure of equipment can be catastrophic. An isolation transformer can also be used to convert 240 volts found in many countries to 120, or come to think of it all the electrical devices on the boat you are thinking of may already be wired for 240 volts and you would want an isolation transformer to go from USA 120 volt shore power to 240 volts on the boat. Additionally, if there is a ground failure in any electrical device onboard, the water can become electrically charged around the boat and cause paralysis of someone swimming nearby causing them to drown. This is especially so in fresh water, but there is some danger in saltwater. Never let anyone swim in a marina. An isolation transformer keeps your boat from charging the water around it. Make sure the isolation transformer is a true isolation type as some transformers out there only convert between voltages but do not isolate the boat from shore power. The windings are shared. Also be aware that many countries use 50 Hertz shore power while the USA is 60 Hertz and if that is the case, you will have to replace washing machines, dryers, and air conditioning compressors, while it is likely that most electronic devices like computers will run on either 60 or 50 Hertz. Not sure about hair dryers.

Nautical Charts & Pubs
Purchase charts (maps) here

The Annapolis Book of Seamanship by John Rousmaniere is used by the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis and is also the textbook for sailing schools and Power Squadrons nationwide. If you want something simpler, as faster read, get Boating Skills and Seamanship by the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary. These books cover the skills and methods to eliminate errors and confusion especially in emergency situations.

For boat repairs, consider Boatowner’s Mechanical and Electrical Manual by Nigel Calder. One of those thick books, but well written. He has also written How To Read A Nautical Chart. Charts have numerous symbols and details that need explanation!

As for the Navigation Rules by the United States Coast Guard, I would instead get The One-Minute Guide to The Nautical Rules Of The Road by Charlie Wing, A United States Power Squadrons Guide. It gives all the rules, but also explains the rationale of the rules with examples of court interpretations.

Hookah direct drive scuba diving equipment sales. Hose diving hookah
For cleaning hull, checking zinc, and removing nets and rope from fouled propellers. Also need knives and saws for fouled propellers.

If you want to learn how to use a sextant, consider Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen by Mary Blewitt. This book is shorter than most as she simplifies it down to the essentials.

Watch Commander
You should have a timer to remind you to check the horizon every 15 minutes. A ship can move fast and go from being over the horizon to where you are very quickly so consider something like this.
__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 10:22   #359
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

United States Coast Pilot®
YOU NEED THIS: Coast Pilot 1 including Boston, starts on page 353.
"The United States Coast Pilot® consists of a series of nautical books that cover a variety of information important to navigators of coastal and intracoastal waters and the Great Lakes. Issued in nine volumes, they contain supplemental information that is difficult to portray on a nautical chart.
Topics in the Coast Pilot include channel descriptions, anchorages, bridge and cable clearances, currents, tide and water levels, prominent features, pilotage, towage, weather, ice conditions, wharf descriptions, dangers, routes, traffic separation schemes, small-craft facilities, and Federal regulations applicable to navigation."

https://activecaptain.com/quickLists...MA&city=Boston
Marinas in Boston
__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-02-2013, 12:12   #360
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Print-on-Demand Charts (POD)
"NOAA's Print-on-Demand (POD) nautical charts provide up-to-date navigation information to mariners. These paper charts are updated on a weekly basis and include all of the latest critical chart corrections. Although NOAA produces POD charts, NOAA does not sell POD charts directly to the public. Instead, NOAA POD charts are available from NOAA's commercial partners OceanGrafix and East View Geospatial. Both partners also sell NGA POD charts."

Nautical Charts & Pubs
Find a chart: use slider to get detailed picture. I had to use Firefox browser because Internet Explorer did not support XMLHttpRequest

OceanGrafix
OceanGrafix provides nautical charts including NOAA Print-on-Demand charts

Nautical Charts Online - NOAA Chart 13272, Boston Inner Harbor
This is Chart 13272 for Boston Inner Harbor showing great detail (small scale)

Nautical Charts Online - NOAA Chart 13270, Boston Harbor
This is Chart 13270 for Boston Harbor showing less detail and larger area

Nautical Charts Online - NOAA Chart 13267, Massachusetts Bay; North River
Massachusetts Bay (large scale)
__________________

__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
paracelle

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.