Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-02-2013, 15:32   #316
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Here is an old posting of mine. The informaton was found with Google, so with a specific country, maybe Google it.
__________________

__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 15:55   #317
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I would trust his numbers. I noticed considerable variation in the gallons per hour for the different boats in Voyaging Under Power book. Probably it's much like sailboats. Many are designed for sitting at the dock and entertaining and just hanging out while others are for cruising around the world. Also, many boats are intended for speed with planning hulls, like several thousand horsepower for the length of boat you are looking at, and others of this length are intended for economy, these are displacement hulls, where 200 horsepower is plenty. For displacement hulls, I find it interesting that if you plot knots against fuel consumption, it is not a straight line. I remember once doing some calculations on a 30 foot sailboat where 2000 engine speed was revolutions per minute (RPM), gave fuel consumption of 0.24 gallons per hour and a speed of 3.3 knots. At 2800 RPM it was 0.6 gallons per hour and 4.6 knots. At 3200 RPM it was 0.8 gallons per hour and 5.3 knots. At 3600 RPM it was 1.2 gallons per hour and 6.0 knots. Plot this on a graph and you will see the slope of the line is not straight, that is a small drop in RPM near maximum power results in a big increase in range. Eventually with enough power, the graph goes practically straight up and this is the hull speed. You can burn an awful lot of fuel and get nothing but a tremendous wake if you do not know your boat. The engine manufacturer has graphs like this: John Deere 6068TFM50 Inboard 2011 Engine Test / Reviews Videos, Specs, Fast Facts, Captain reports | BoatTEST.com
I should have mentioned that the 4 gallons per hour at 8 knots would be for a clean hull and may or may not have been determined with half fuel and water. Also, cruisers are usually surprised how much extra weight is added to a boat with food, spares, and personal stuff. For this boat, it could be another 10,000 pounds maybe. So, get out the GPS and do a run on a calm day and no current if possible. Do the run in both directions and to it for various RPMs. If you cannot find RPM vs. fuel burn graph, you will have to rig a graduated column to measure fuel burned. This is very important information as you do not want to run out of fuel somewhere in the middle of the ocean. However, the 4 gallons per hour at 8 knots is a good number, especially if you can find out how much the boat was loaded from the manufacturer.
__________________

__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 16:45   #318
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barpilot View Post
You're right, I did miss that you were only talking about standing/running rigging etc. I still have problems with anyone encouraging GG.
Seems you missed this bit of my post as well, strange, you did quote it in your post.
Quote:
ADD: I should point out that I am not cheering on the op's desire to buy and plod around in 50 -60 -70+ foot of boat without appropriate experience either.
I've seen enough out of control operators on the water as it is.
I will add to my out of control operators comment that it is a big ocean out there and there is no reason why GG has to wait until getting to a crowded area to test out skills at manoeuvring.

Whenever I have had to use an unfamiliar vessel I have always tried to throw a couple of fenders over the side , sometimes anchored them so as to do a few dummy runs and get an idea of propwalk, windage/drift, reversing, stopping length etc.

The marina or a crowded anchorage is not the place to find these things out
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:11   #319
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Seems you missed this bit of my post as well, strange, you did quote it in your post.


I will add to my out of control operators comment that it is a big ocean out there and there is no reason why GG has to wait until getting to a crowded area to test out skills at manoeuvring.

Whenever I have had to use an unfamiliar vessel I have always tried to throw a couple of fenders over the side , sometimes anchored them so as to do a few dummy runs and get an idea of propwalk, windage/drift, reversing, stopping length etc.

The marina or a crowded anchorage is not the place to find these things out
Good point. We used to lower a floating 10'X40' platform and practice docking the 499' Golden Bear with a minimum of engine and rudder orders. The goal was to come to a complete stop as close to the platform and parallel to it with the bridge wing being centered to the platform, again with minimum engine and rudder orders. I was on bridge watch at the beginning of this exercise, so paid attention. Later in the day when I was off watch it was my turn and I nailed it. The instructors assumed it was a fluke so had me do it again. Nailed it the second time and after everyone had been tested, an award was handed out for the top performer. It was a nice compass binoculars and upon presentation Captain Jim Buckley announced that not only did I do it perfectly but they had me do it again with the same results. Then he asked for "applause for the old fart" since I had an average of 20+ years on the rest of the midshipmen.

Thanks for reminding me of one of the highlights of my education at CMA. Jim Buckley and Jim Wheeler were two stand out instructors while I was at the academy.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 17:29   #320
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post

Also, it seems some of you question the fuel burn info that the builder gave me himself?
He is reputable builder and I really don't think he has reason to lie.

Ooops, yep, I forgot your anticipated fuel burn figures came directly from the builder. I'd certainly defer to him

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:15   #321
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Seems to me if she can afford the boat, she can afford the lessons to learn to run it ! just my 2 cents, seems like somefolks just like to rain on others parades !!
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:17   #322
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: 1999 Catalina 36
Posts: 21
Send a message via Yahoo to Barpilot
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Good point. We used to lower a floating 10'X40' platform and practice docking the 499' Golden Bear with a minimum of engine and rudder orders. The goal was to come to a complete stop as close to the platform and parallel to it with the bridge wing being centered to the platform, again with minimum engine and rudder orders. I was on bridge watch at the beginning of this exercise, so paid attention. Later in the day when I was off watch it was my turn and I nailed it. The instructors assumed it was a fluke so had me do it again. Nailed it the second time and after everyone had been tested, an award was handed out for the top performer. It was a nice compass binoculars and upon presentation Captain Jim Buckley announced that not only did I do it perfectly but they had me do it again with the same results. Then he asked for "applause for the old fart" since I had an average of 20+ years on the rest of the midshipmen.

Thanks for reminding me of one of the highlights of my education at CMA. Jim Buckley and Jim Wheeler were two stand out instructors while I was at the academy.
Hopefully, the result would be the same if we added a $ and a few zeros to those fenders and floats. There is always the pucker factor when you bring your $200K boat into a fuel dock where there is space for you between a couple of boats that have price tags well north of yours. BTW, Deckofficer, check your mail on here.
__________________
Barpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:20   #323
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: 1999 Catalina 36
Posts: 21
Send a message via Yahoo to Barpilot
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Ooops, yep, I forgot your anticipated fuel burn figures came directly from the builder. I'd certainly defer to him

-Chris
And we know that the builder is reputable because.................
__________________
Barpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2013, 18:31   #324
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barpilot View Post
BTW, Deckofficer, check your mail on here.
You didn't send me a PM but a comment on my profile page. I don't use this function and didn't know how to reply, so here is my reply, sorry for the thread drift......................

Yes you do graduate from CMA with your Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean license. For four years you stand watch on rotation on the ship plus 2 semesters sailing on the Golden Bear and one summer on a working ship. You don't receive your BS in Marine Transportation until you pass your USCG tests of 4 days, 8 hours per day. After that you have your 3rd Mates Unlimited and are ready to join MM&P and earn a living. After 2 years of sailing on your 3rd you can sit for your 2nd, and repeat. Because some shipping companies have a quiet agreement with MM&P (like SeaLand), they retain the same captain for the same ship assignment and this sometimes carries over to the Chief Mate. That makes getting the 2 years needed as a Chief Mate so that you can sit for your captain's ticket difficult. I sailed on container, break bulk, and drill ships (rigs), the latter being a faster way to upgrade. On the drill ships your on watch 12 on 12 off instead of (2) 4 on 8 off thus a faster way to get your time in.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 06:36   #325
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
BTW GG, can I share a picture or two that doesn't show the overall boat but some of its machinery areas here on the thread? I think some will be impressed on the commercial type construction and upkeep of the machine space.
I would rather not share any more info or pics just yet. I'm very glad to hear that you think the boat's construction is impressive. So, does that mean, that if it were someone more experienced purchasing the boat, that you would say that it seems to be good a good buy?

yes, the boat has twin John Deere's 200hp
__________________
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 07:29   #326
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 777
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
Here is an old posting of mine. The informaton was found with Google, so with a specific country, maybe Google it.
Thank you!
I did google it and I found several.

Any idea what the keyword for Google would be in trying to find a diesel mechanic to check the engines? I tried the obvious "diesel mechanic", "boatyard", "shipyard", "boat repair", and "yacht repair", but nothing really turned up. Should I ask the surveyor for a recommendation on a diesel mechanic?
__________________
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 09:54   #327
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
So, does that mean, that if it were someone more experienced purchasing the boat, that you would say that it seems to be good a good buy?

yes, the boat has twin John Deere's 200hp
Well, yes if that is the type of boat they wanted and have the funds to run it.

One thing did puzzle me. Since it is a 2003 model, why were all the TVs old CRT (tube, not flat screen) units?

Can I post a picture just of the engine room since it is known that it is a pair of Deere 200 hp?
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 10:13   #328
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
Thank you!
I did google it and I found several.

Any idea what the keyword for Google would be in trying to find a diesel mechanic to check the engines? I tried the obvious "diesel mechanic", "boatyard", "shipyard", "boat repair", and "yacht repair", but nothing really turned up. Should I ask the surveyor for a recommendation on a diesel mechanic?
Try automotive machine shop and then ask them for a recommendation. You could try diesel truck repair. I believe John Deere is international so you could try farm equipment repair. A good mechanic with the proper shop manuals should be able to deal with almost any diesel. The only thing I can think of that a truck diesel mechanic might have trouble with are the heat exchanger, raw water pump, and perhaps the specialized fuel filters needed for a boat. This boat might have a keel cooler so no need for heat exchanger. It would also be a good idea to have the mechanic look at the exhaust, whether wet or dry system. If you choose repair shops near the marina, they are probably used to boat power plants anyway. By the way, fuel filtration is important because 80% of the time with mechanical fuel injection, this is what causes an engine to quit. If you have electronic injection, then spares for the computer would be a good idea. Spare parts to carry is a big topic in itself.

The marine surveyor is of course a good idea for a diesel mechanic recommendation. Ask the mechanic what things he will check for and we can go over that too.
__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 11:33   #329
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Wisconsin
Boat: O’Day Daysailer II, 17'
Posts: 572
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

The John Deere 200 horsepower engine is good for 10,000 hours if maintained and the parts are less expensive. It's used in a lot of commercial and recreational boats. John Deere has been making marine engines for 30 years
__________________
westwinds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2013, 11:51   #330
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On a boat!
Posts: 118
Re: Completely Overwhelmed

It's funny listening to all the people telling GG she's gonna kill someone. They wouldn't be saying it if she was talking about taking her kids out in a 35' sailboat, but the risks would be the same.

Small boats sink as fast as big ones if you let the water in.

I got the same thing when I jumped from a 19' day sailor to a 38 footer and then to a 46.

Here's a hint about learning to drive a much much bigger boat than you're used to: Spend a LOT of time learning how everything works before you ever untie the first dockline. Think through each step of each maneuver until you can walk yourself through it calmly without thinking about it. Then take the boat out with someone who really knows how to drive it and do the fender overboard drill. Dock it and undock it over and over for a day, in multiple directions if possible. Do crew drills for engine failure, taking on water, fire, and man overboard.

The most important part is to practice the hell out of your close quarters maneuvering skills so you don't wind up with the boat moving too fast to stop. That much tonnage will make a LOT bigger dent than a small boat. It won't turn as fast either.

You can do it, but it's risky and doing it safely will be a lot of hard work, and expensive. If you're up for that, rock on!

Oh yeah. Get REALLY good at navigation. Running that thing aground or underestimating your bridge clearance requirement won't be cheap.
__________________

__________________
H Romberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
paracelle

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.