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Old 12-02-2013, 22:27   #301
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I tend to judge a person by their last docking (even if it was actually their first) rather than by assumed reputation.
A worthy standard, indeed.
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Old 12-02-2013, 23:14   #302
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I tend to judge a person by their last docking (even if it was actually their first) rather than by assumed reputation.
Well, hey, this is still about boats, right?!

Having two engines is great when it comes to docking, but we were on the T dock next to a trawler with thrusters, and I just gotta say, they pulled up to a complete stop at the dock about 4' out and then just went sideways into a perfect docking. There is sometimes a tradeoff between money and skill when it comes to being able to dock smoothly. Just sayin' ... I wouldn't judge by that alone.
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Old 13-02-2013, 07:02   #303
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
And you seem to have forgotten about the cost of masts, wire, terminal fittings, sailcloth, winches, labour etc etc.
Are those things coming down in price?
In Australia for a boat the size the OP is after they could cost well over $100,000 on a new build and they do wear out.
Also, they are not required for the powered vessel.
But the money does buy a lot of fuel.
Especially if on a fuel efficient vessel as has been pointed out several times in this thread and is also in the link in my signature.

Sounds to me that these are not favourable conditions for that vessel.
Or they were inexperienced operators on that particular vessel

Perhaps no wind and a slack tide would suit them better.


All I know is that I have in the past sat behind an island for a week at a time waiting for the weather to abate before entering a marina berth/fuel dock and putting my boat and others at risk.
I imagine if the OP is really cruising and not on a time frame that they could do the same.

ADD: I should point out that I am not cheering on the op's desire to buy and plod around in 50 -60 -70+ foot of boat without appropriate experience either.
I've seen enough out of control operators on the water as it is.
In Australia for a boat the size the OP is after they could cost well over $100,000 on a new build and they do wear out.

Are you kidding me? Where can you buy 50-70' new build boat for $100,000 AU or US? You can't buy a new 30' sailboat in this country (US) for $100,000. I'm beginning to doubt Cat Man Do's level of experience and the quality of his advice.
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Old 13-02-2013, 07:36   #304
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
And you seem to have forgotten about the cost of masts, wire, terminal fittings, sailcloth, winches, labour etc etc.
Are those things coming down in price?
In Australia for a boat the size the OP is after they could cost well over $100,000 on a new build and they do wear out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barpilot View Post
Are you kidding me? Where can you buy 50-70' new build boat for $100,000 AU or US? You can't buy a new 30' sailboat in this country (US) for $100,000.
That's for the mast etc you muppet.
I did think that was pretty obvious, but I have embolded it just in case you missed it.
Quote:
I'm beginning to doubt Cat Man Do's level of experience and the quality of his advice.
I wont lower myself to make a snide comment as you have done.
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Old 13-02-2013, 08:37   #305
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
That's for the mast etc you muppet.
I did think that was pretty obvious, but I have embolded it just in case you missed it.

I wont lower myself to make a snide comment as you have done.
You're right, I did miss that you were only talking about standing/running rigging etc. I still have problems with anyone encouraging GG.
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Old 13-02-2013, 09:12   #306
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I'm back to thinking she's 13 and bored
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Old 13-02-2013, 09:38   #307
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I'm back to thinking she's 13 and bored
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 13-02-2013, 09:56   #308
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I remember with my American Sailing Association class, Basic Coastal Cruising Standard (ASA 103) that docking was my biggest concern. There are also books with detailed information on docking depending on wind direction and current. I did Google boat docking class Boston and got five hits. Maybe the whole family should go.

It might be that GG should look for a good instructor for her delivery, maybe female. I know ASA has only women classes because having husband and wife together does not always work out. Also, if she is going to spend several months on the delivery, that's a lot of study time.

Any instructor capable of handling a sailboat of the size trawler GG is getting should be able to deal with the trawler as both boats are displacement hull and the sailboat usually has its sails down and does the docking with the engine, so very much the same thing I would think.

I know of an ASA instructor, an older fellow, wonderful experience with him, but I am sure others here may have suggestions.
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:48   #309
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I remember with my American Sailing Association class, Basic Coastal Cruising Standard (ASA 103) that docking was my biggest concern. There are also books with detailed information on docking depending on wind direction and current. I did Google boat docking class Boston and got five hits. Maybe the whole family should go.

It might be that GG should look for a good instructor for her delivery, maybe female. I know ASA has only women classes because having husband and wife together does not always work out. Also, if she is going to spend several months on the delivery, that's a lot of study time.

Any instructor capable of handling a sailboat of the size trawler GG is getting should be able to deal with the trawler as both boats are displacement hull and the sailboat usually has its sails down and does the docking with the engine, so very much the same thing I would think.


I know of an ASA instructor, an older fellow, wonderful experience with him, but I am sure others here may have suggestions.
Maneuvering a large, twin screw motor yacht, with lots of windage in a confined space is NOTHING like docking a similar loa sailboat. GG might want to consider Chapman's in Florida or some similar school first. If she can get by that, then she might consider hiring an experienced captain with at least a 250 or 500 ton license.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:02   #310
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

I really hope this turns out well for you GG. Please get lots of instruction. I've seen way to many people get themselves in trouble because they can afford the boat and are determined, but they lack the knowledge and experience. It seems dramatic, but your actions as captain can kill people, and lack of knowledge or experience are no excuse.

Personally, I think buying this large a boat for your first is a huge mistake and smacks of arrogance, ignorance or both.

I wish you, your family and others you cross paths with remain safe.
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Old 13-02-2013, 13:28   #311
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

The funny thing about this thread is that it even has me chuckling. I'm not sure if some of you make the comments that you make because you have not read all of my past responses or if you have a short memory. It is quite comical that some of you seem to think I will be packing up my kids next week for a global cruise or even a harbor run alone. I just cannot find it in me to explain again. You will have to go back and see what I have said in prior posts.
As far as being "completely overwhelmed" that was because I could not decide what to purchase. There a many choices and it's not easy.
I am a real person and I will get my boat, like it or not. In fact if anyone from New England wants to come down for a day when the boat arrives and give a few lessons on anything that your great at I would certainly welcome that, especially the engines and repair basics. This may be my greatest challenge or maybe not, we'll see. Now don't get all fired up thinking that this is what I am considering training. I am absolutely NOT, I just think it would be fun.
I have decided to ship the boat.
I will be traveling at the beginning of March for the survey and mechanical inspections.
Does anyone have an idea of how I should go about locating a good survey in another countr
Also, it seems some of you question the fuel burn info that the builder gave me himself?
He is reputable builder and I really don't think he has reason to lie.
I appreciate the support from those of you have been supportative.
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Old 13-02-2013, 13:35   #312
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Purchase pending survey results on the boat you chose? (the one I know about?) If so, like I said, is a lot of boat for the money that is late model with very low engine hours. The engines were John Deere, right?
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:23   #313
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

BTW GG, can I share a picture or two that doesn't show the overall boat but some of its machinery areas here on the thread? I think some will be impressed on the commercial type construction and upkeep of the machine space.
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:28   #314
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
...Also, it seems some of you question the fuel burn info that the builder gave me himself?
He is reputable builder and I really don't think he has reason to lie.
I appreciate the support from those of you have been supportative.
I would trust his numbers. I noticed considerable variation in the gallons per hour for the different boats in Voyaging Under Power book. Probably it's much like sailboats. Many are designed for sitting at the dock and entertaining and just hanging out while others are for cruising around the world. Also, many boats are intended for speed with planning hulls, like several thousand horsepower for the length of boat you are looking at, and others of this length are intended for economy, these are displacement hulls, where 200 horsepower is plenty. For displacement hulls, I find it interesting that if you plot knots against fuel consumption, it is not a straight line. I remember once doing some calculations on a 30 foot sailboat where 2000 engine speed was revolutions per minute (RPM), gave fuel consumption of 0.24 gallons per hour and a speed of 3.3 knots. At 2800 RPM it was 0.6 gallons per hour and 4.6 knots. At 3200 RPM it was 0.8 gallons per hour and 5.3 knots. At 3600 RPM it was 1.2 gallons per hour and 6.0 knots. Plot this on a graph and you will see the slope of the line is not straight, that is a small drop in RPM near maximum power results in a big increase in range. Eventually with enough power, the graph goes practically straight up and this is the hull speed. You can burn an awful lot of fuel and get nothing but a tremendous wake if you do not know your boat. The engine manufacturer has graphs like this: John Deere 6068TFM50 Inboard 2011 Engine Test / Reviews Videos, Specs, Fast Facts, Captain reports | BoatTEST.com
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Old 13-02-2013, 14:42   #315
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

It would be hard to recomend any surveyers without knowing the country.

On a large power boat machinery fitout quality, serviceability, and maintainance are all important.

A quality brand usually has the first two handled.

cheers
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